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Problem loading LSWC in .45 acp
- Thread starter EMT Edu
- Start date
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Skids,
The one smack dab in the middle of the picture is from an H&G #502 mold. It weighs in at just a tad over 240gr with my alloy. It is a Keith design and he has some real stout load for it in Sixguns.
The one next to it on the right is the Lyman bullet that is designed to be 250gr. Not sure of the number of the mold as it is Paul5388's.
Hope this helps.
The one smack dab in the middle of the picture is from an H&G #502 mold. It weighs in at just a tad over 240gr with my alloy. It is a Keith design and he has some real stout load for it in Sixguns.
The one next to it on the right is the Lyman bullet that is designed to be 250gr. Not sure of the number of the mold as it is Paul5388's.
Hope this helps.
TSQUARED
Member
Terry,
In loading LSWC's I have found that the base to shoulder dimension is the relavant issue. Your 200 gr. SWC has a profile similar to the old Star 185 gr. LSWCHP for which a 0.935" base to shoulder length provided excellent functioning. That being said if you have a barrel which has not been relived for SWC's you will not obtain reliable functioning.
Tony
OP
EMT Edu
Member
I just checked the LSWC I have, using an over-all length of 1.250 results in a base to shoulder length of .930". I've loaded about 700 at that OAL, and fired around 250 rounds. A couple of FTF, but overall happy with the rounds, and they're very accurate. When I load next time I'll leave them a snicker longer.
Thanks for the input.
BUFF
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
"The one next to it on the right is the Lyman bullet that is designed to be 250gr. Not sure of the number of the mold as it is Paul5388's."
It looks like the Lyman 454424. They may have renumbered it to something else. I like the bullet and cast and shoot a lot of them. I used to size them to both .454" and .452" for guns with different size cylinder throats, but have just sized them all to .454" for years now and they shoot well in everything.
It looks like the Lyman 454424. They may have renumbered it to something else. I like the bullet and cast and shoot a lot of them. I used to size them to both .454" and .452" for guns with different size cylinder throats, but have just sized them all to .454" for years now and they shoot well in everything.
TSQUARED
Member
Terry,
I landed on the 0.935" base to shoulder length after some experimentation using the 185 gr. Star LSWCHP. You can experiment and see which dimension provides the best accuracy and reliability with your bullet.
tony
45acp crimping
I have always see such explanations of "set your taper crimp die until the ctimp is just right". Where is "just right"? First of all, set your seat die high enough so that when you seat the bullet to desired depth (for your gun) there is no roll crimp applied. Make sure you have purchased a taper crimp die and use it after the seating step. Before starting your loading sequence, measure the case thickness ot the casr mouth. If yoy reload you most surely gave a caliper maybe even a tubing thickness micrometer. Use the knife edge tip portion of the caliper and measure the case mouth thickness. Multiply that by 2 and add to the measured bullet diameter. That is the basic uncrimped case mouth size. If you chamber this round you may exprtience bullet set back. At your taper crimp die make sure it is initially set high enough as to not mske contact with case when ramis raised. Start screwing die down until contact. Now with caliper, you are goingto alternately remove cartridge, measure case mouth dismeter at bulleg case junction and screw die down until you see about .002 decrease in case mouth diameter. This is your crimp setting. May need more or less based on what you see. (Setback etc.).
All of this is predicated on sorting your brass for case length similarity. Once sorted, you dont have to do it again as they will generally change equally within a group. If cases vary considerably in length, the taper crimp will vary as well. I sort into groups that are within .003 to -.004 of each other. If you change case groups you change crimp die setting. If you dont sort, guess what, this is inconsistency which means unexplained flyers, group size variations and maybe even feed issues. Reloading is a precise process, take the time to do it justice. If you just want to blast and make noise you can get by with doing less. Or maybe just buy some fire crackers.
I have always see such explanations of "set your taper crimp die until the ctimp is just right". Where is "just right"? First of all, set your seat die high enough so that when you seat the bullet to desired depth (for your gun) there is no roll crimp applied. Make sure you have purchased a taper crimp die and use it after the seating step. Before starting your loading sequence, measure the case thickness ot the casr mouth. If yoy reload you most surely gave a caliper maybe even a tubing thickness micrometer. Use the knife edge tip portion of the caliper and measure the case mouth thickness. Multiply that by 2 and add to the measured bullet diameter. That is the basic uncrimped case mouth size. If you chamber this round you may exprtience bullet set back. At your taper crimp die make sure it is initially set high enough as to not mske contact with case when ramis raised. Start screwing die down until contact. Now with caliper, you are goingto alternately remove cartridge, measure case mouth dismeter at bulleg case junction and screw die down until you see about .002 decrease in case mouth diameter. This is your crimp setting. May need more or less based on what you see. (Setback etc.).
All of this is predicated on sorting your brass for case length similarity. Once sorted, you dont have to do it again as they will generally change equally within a group. If cases vary considerably in length, the taper crimp will vary as well. I sort into groups that are within .003 to -.004 of each other. If you change case groups you change crimp die setting. If you dont sort, guess what, this is inconsistency which means unexplained flyers, group size variations and maybe even feed issues. Reloading is a precise process, take the time to do it justice. If you just want to blast and make noise you can get by with doing less. Or maybe just buy some fire crackers.
+1 on post #38;
The SWC design needs to fit the mag. and feed up the ramp.
A lot more problems than the old RN Ball ammo, in working right.
As for measurements on bullet cylinder (body) stick out, from the case,
you can use the height of a Dime for starters.
A lot of Pistols need the correct OAL and FPS to work.
I gave up trying them in my 9mm but the RN coated worked well.
Just that the WC makes a nice hole in targets that can be seen
and scored easier.
The SWC design needs to fit the mag. and feed up the ramp.
A lot more problems than the old RN Ball ammo, in working right.
As for measurements on bullet cylinder (body) stick out, from the case,
you can use the height of a Dime for starters.
A lot of Pistols need the correct OAL and FPS to work.
I gave up trying them in my 9mm but the RN coated worked well.
Just that the WC makes a nice hole in targets that can be seen
and scored easier.
4barrel
Member
He probably came to his senses since 2009.
Hillbilly77
Member
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Speer manuals are for Speer bullets.....
Get a Lyman 49 or 50 (the latest) or their Cast Reloading Handbook. It has a lot info on lead loadings.
I used to buy Speer exclusively but the shortages forced me to branch out. The data and info in a book might not match exxactly what they have but you have to learn to compensate SAFELY. Most revolver cartridges aren't as picky as semis especially concerning Over All Length.
Get a Lyman 49 or 50 (the latest) or their Cast Reloading Handbook. It has a lot info on lead loadings.
I used to buy Speer exclusively but the shortages forced me to branch out. The data and info in a book might not match exxactly what they have but you have to learn to compensate SAFELY. Most revolver cartridges aren't as picky as semis especially concerning Over All Length.
andyo5
Member
A good rule of thumb is that the shoulder should be at least 1/32" above the rim of the case. If the stated OAL gives you less than this, it is probably wrong.
dmy
Member
Wow, I think the OP hit a nerve. Here's my $0.02. As you can see from several of the photos posted, there are several different profiles for the same "200 gr LSWC" projectile. Since they all theoretically weigh the same, they have to have subtle differences in their profile. Accordingly, the Speer manual may have the correct COAL for a Speer 200 gr LSWC, but it is not necessarily correct for the H&G #68 or any other 200 gr SWC manufactured or cast by others. I have seen many posts which recommend seating the SWC so that the projectile shoulder is above the case rim equal to the thickness of a thumbnail. This is not an exact measurement, but coupled with a plunk test, I think this should point you in the right direction. I have seen many people complain that their autos do not feed SWC profiles. Others swear by they feed reliably 100% of the time. Mine doesn't have any problem feeding SWCs, but the ramp on my barrel has been throated and polished. I would try tweaking the bullet seating first, because it doesn't cost money. If that doesn't work, you might want to play with the taper crimp a bit, but not too much as it also increases pressure. I agree with you that the SWC is, or at least can be, the most accurate projectile out of a .45 ACP. Good luck.
fredj338
Member
There must be more than a dozen diff 200gr SLWC profiles in common mold choices & another dozen in custom, molds. As always, OAL is bullet & barrel specific.
Don't mess with the ramp......
It's nowhere near time to blame the ramp when the ammunition isn't right. Don't do something you can't undo. I did have a problem with a Shield and when I sent it back to the factory they installed a new barrel. I most likely would have messed it up.
It's nowhere near time to blame the ramp when the ammunition isn't right. Don't do something you can't undo. I did have a problem with a Shield and when I sent it back to the factory they installed a new barrel. I most likely would have messed it up.
I don't want to drift, but this does concern...
This does concern bullet seating depth and some of the problems you run into with different shaped bullets. I bought round nose bullets but the site didn't say that they were 'smallball'. If they are anything over 1.06" they catch in the rifling. The minimum AOL for a 9mm is only 1". When they are seated to the correct depth, they 'look' too short because the ogive is sunk in a little below the rim. I was really frustrated until I figured out what was going on.
A short time after I figured this out another poster put a picture of a correctly seated bullet and said, "Isn't this bullet too deep?" I could calmly tell him that, yeah, the seating was ok.
PS Part of the problem is getting ammo that will work in ALL of your 9mm guns. Different brands of full and medium size, compacts, and now even a carbine.
This does concern bullet seating depth and some of the problems you run into with different shaped bullets. I bought round nose bullets but the site didn't say that they were 'smallball'. If they are anything over 1.06" they catch in the rifling. The minimum AOL for a 9mm is only 1". When they are seated to the correct depth, they 'look' too short because the ogive is sunk in a little below the rim. I was really frustrated until I figured out what was going on.
A short time after I figured this out another poster put a picture of a correctly seated bullet and said, "Isn't this bullet too deep?" I could calmly tell him that, yeah, the seating was ok.
PS Part of the problem is getting ammo that will work in ALL of your 9mm guns. Different brands of full and medium size, compacts, and now even a carbine.
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