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  #1  
Old 09-04-2009, 04:44 PM
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What is your personal favorite .357 mag load? What is your personal favorite .357 mag load? What is your personal favorite .357 mag load? What is your personal favorite .357 mag load? What is your personal favorite .357 mag load?  
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Default What is your personal favorite .357 mag load?

I am going to be getting back into reloading, and probably will pick up something else to compare to my Unique that I have been exclusively using for the last 15 years or so.

So what is your favorite powder, primer, bullet combo recipe?
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Old 09-04-2009, 04:49 PM
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Unique can't make a true magnum load.
Try H110/296 for full-house magnums. Data on Hodgdon website.
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Old 09-04-2009, 06:16 PM
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It depends on the purpose.

In just about any handgun in that chambering, a Rem 140gr JHP and a just under max load of Blue Dot has proven to be very effective and accurate for me. Nothing wrong with Hornady 158 XTPs and WW296 either, but it is more difficult to download WW296.

For a carbine I like a Hornady 180 XTP and a max load of Lil'Gun. Lil'Gun does not work so well in short barrels, and prefers heavy for caliber bullets, but will give some very impressive ballistics in a 357 carbine, rivaling or exceeding the 30-30 as a game round. As an HD/PD carbine I imagine it would be devastatingly effective.
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Old 09-04-2009, 06:21 PM
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Lately I've been using 14.0 gr 2400 under a 160 gr LSWC for full power stuff. For mid-level loads I use 5.0 gr Unique under the same LSWC. My target load is 2.8 gr Bullseye under a 148 gr HBWC, all in .357 brass.
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Old 09-04-2009, 06:31 PM
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I too only utilize .357 Magnum brass for all my loads.

15.0 grains of 2400 beneath a cast lead 158 grain SWC is my favorite .357 Magnum load. This powder charge also happens to work well with 158 grain jacketed bullets in my Model 27.

17.0 grains of H 110 and a 158 grain jacketed bullet makes another good full power load.

A target load of 5.0 grains of Unique and a 158 grain lead SWC has seen most use in the past couple of years.
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Old 09-04-2009, 06:51 PM
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I have killed 2 deer and 2 hogs with a load of 13.5 grains of H110 and 158 gr. xtp. The deer with a S&W 66. The hogs with a Marlin rifle.


JIM
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Old 09-04-2009, 06:58 PM
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158gr Penn TC or SWC over 12.5gr AA#9. Runs an honest 1250fps in 6" and is superbly accurate. Next would be any 158gr JHP over the same powder charge for the same velocity range. These are the best combos I've found to date.
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Old 09-04-2009, 07:24 PM
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14 grains of 2400 under a 158 grain TVB LSWC.
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Old 09-04-2009, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
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14 grains of 2400 under a 158 grain TVB LSWC.
Yep, that's the same for me, with a Fed 100 primer. I like shooting a load that is nearly identical to what fellows did sixty years ago.
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Old 09-04-2009, 11:19 PM
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10.5 grains of Alliant 2400 under a SAECO #353 180 grain RNFP, Federal Small Pistol primer, Remington brass.
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Old 09-04-2009, 11:29 PM
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I am currently enjoying 13 grains of 2400 with a Keith 358429 170 grain SWC. Its not full power, but its not weak either. I'm still working on a good 200 grain load. I started with 9.5 grains of 2400, but that was pretty weak, and I hesitate to call it a magnum load, even though it was in magnum brass.
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Old 09-05-2009, 02:19 AM
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In 357 mag brass.....

Speer 125 gr JHP......21.0 gr of W296 w/mag primer


or

17.5 gr of 2400 w/standard primer


........................................................................................................


Speer 158 gr JHP......16.5 gr of W296 w/mag primer

or

..............................15.0 gr of 2400 w/standard primer


*****Whenever using bullets of different brands,drop down and work back up,different bullets will yield different pressure/velocity with the same charge even though the same type and weight.
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Old 09-05-2009, 03:08 AM
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A 173 grain 358429 over 14 grains of 2400.

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Old 09-05-2009, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitesite View Post
Yep, that's the same for me, with a Fed 100 primer. I like shooting a load that is nearly identical to what fellows did sixty years ago.
+1

And the 185gr Beartooth LBT over 15.8gr of h110 for 1200fps of bone smaking delight isn't to bad either.
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Old 09-05-2009, 01:41 PM
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12.5-13 grains of 2400 under a ~175 grain LSWC in a .38 case.
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Old 09-05-2009, 02:50 PM
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158 gr. SWC with 15 grs. 2400 will do over 1400 in a 6 in. barrel. Been shooting it since 1965. Larry
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Old 09-05-2009, 03:32 PM
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180 gr WFN-GC Cast Performance bullet over 9.5 gr Blue Dot gives 1245 fps from my 4" bbl 686-3. This is my winter woods load.
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Old 09-06-2009, 03:04 PM
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158 jhp over 14.8 2400, my book shows this at max, my plinker load is 158 cast swc over 6.0 unique shoot great in my 4 inch 27-2 mike
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Old 09-06-2009, 06:20 PM
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I like 13.6 grains of 2400 with mag primers and a 158 grain SJSP bullet. As a bonus, I do not worry about my powder dispenser acting quirky and dropping up to +/- .5 grains of 2400, as 14.1 grains of 2400 is still well below maximum load, at least according to Alliant.
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Old 09-06-2009, 06:58 PM
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For plinkin' with both the 6'' 686 and the 20'' carbine, I like 7.4 grns. of Unique under a Remmie SJHP using a standard small pistol primer.

For hunting with the 686 I like 15.5 grains of H110/W296 under a 158 Hornady XTP-FP or Speer JSP with a small magnum pistol primer. The carbine prefers 16.5 grns. of IMR4227 and a small pistol primer under either of the same bullets
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Old 09-06-2009, 09:27 PM
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I have more than one .357 Magnum load I like to shoot.

1.) In my Carbine and SA revolvers I like a 158gr JSP bullet over 16.8gr W296.
2.) In DA revolvers I shoot a 158gr JHP over 14.0-14.5gr 2400.
3.) For serious work a Max charge of Lil'Gun and a 180gr jacketed or GC lead bullet does the trick.
4.) For a mid-range plinking load I shoot a 158gr LSWC over a charge of 7.2gr HS-6.
5.) For a light plinking load I shoot a 158gr LSWC over 4.0gr W231.

*** Remember, always check data you find on the Internet for yourself. Mistakes can and will happen when posting numbers. Don't blame me if you blow something up...***
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  #22  
Old 09-08-2009, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanilla Gorilla View Post
A 173 grain 358429 over 14 grains of 2400.

Same 358429 with enough Herco to propel it to 1200 fps. If I feel that isn't enough then I go to a max load of Herco out of an old Lyman manual with 358429 for over 1300 fps out of my 4" and 6" Mod. 28's. This is the most accurate cast bullet I have found for 38 Special's 357's and shoots well with loads from mouse farts to bear loads. I've found that Herco burns cleaner for me than 2400 with better accuracy out of my guns.

Kirmdog
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Old 09-08-2009, 09:55 AM
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Tennessee Valley Bullets 158-gr LSWCGC over 18.0 gr Lil' Gun and a CCI magnum primer, firm roll crimp. 1400 fps from the 4" GP-100, and just over 2k fps from the 20" 92 Short Rifle.
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Old 09-08-2009, 11:00 AM
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Tennessee Valley Bullets 158-gr LSWCGC over 18.0 gr Lil' Gun and a CCI magnum primer, firm roll crimp. 1400 fps from the 4" GP-100, and just over 2k fps from the 20" 92 Short Rifle.
lil gun seems to excel in longer barrels. Since I've started reloading for 22 hornet, and eventually .410 shotgun...lil gun will be on my reloading bench for the foreseeable future.
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Old 09-08-2009, 11:22 AM
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158 gr SWC & 3.0 grains of Bullseye
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Old 09-08-2009, 01:28 PM
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PPS, Lil' Gun definitely is better in the longer tubes - the spreads drop to amazingly small numbers out of that 92 of mine. I think the deviations are single-digits while the means are over 2000 fps. Amazing.

It's still hell on wheels out of the short barrels (1400 fps from a 4" with a 158-grainer!), but the spreads are just so tight with the longer ones. Shoots accurately, too.

A neat powder.
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Old 09-08-2009, 03:25 PM
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Exclamation Two different ones:

For the wife's M586 6" and Marlin 1894 carbine it is a H&G #290BB bullet over a Speer #8 charge of SR4756. 1280fps out of the handgun and 1580fps out of the rifle.

I have others but can't pull that data from my 53 year old hard drive at the moment!

I don't like to shoot anything lighter than 158gr in the "38" caliber cases, special or magnum.

It looks like I need to work on some of those loads like Erich mentioned above!
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Old 09-08-2009, 09:55 PM
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6.2 gr WW231 and a 158gr LSWC. Runs about 1050-1100 fps out of a 6" bbl.
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Old 09-09-2009, 04:11 AM
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The range loads I am currently using are 125 grain FPCN over 4.2 grains of Winchester Super Target and Federal small pistol primers.
I have been using the same projectiles with a small variation to the powder since I began reloading at the beginning of this year.
Last week I ordered a batch of 140 FPCN and 158 grain Keith style bullets so I am starting to get a bit adventurous with my reloading; once I use up the WST powder I think I will change to W 231. (easy to get).
I have been playing with the camera today; here is a picture of a few of my rounds.
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:38 AM
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The load I shoot the most is a 158 Gr. TVB LSWC with 5.3 Gr. Universal Clays and a Fed GM200M primer. I use it as a DA practice load. Chrono's right at 900 fps out of a M19 w/ 2 1/2" barrel and around a 1000 fps out of M19 w/ 6" barrel. You can probably come very close to duplicating this load with a similar charge of Unique, but Universal meters better. I bought a pound of Unique a few weeks before I found a pound of Universal on the shelf. The Universal is nearly gone but the Unique container is still about 3/4 full.
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:16 AM
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My favorite load is 158 Speer GD with 16 gn of H110 and a CCI 550 primer, around 1300fps in a 6 inch bbl. and very accurate.
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Old 09-14-2009, 10:07 AM
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This past Saturday, I think I just found my favorite .357 load to shoot out of my 8-3/8", 686-1. My gun has the 4 position adjustable front sight. I've tried quite a few different loads.

My load was 14.7 gr H-110, WSPM, 158 gr UCSP. I shot it at 25 and 50 yards. My best 50 yard group was 2-1/2 inches for 6 shots shooting off a bag rest.
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Old 09-16-2009, 05:16 PM
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14.5 grns of 2400, cci350 primer, lasercast 158. That is my favorite plinker load. Accurate and reliable.
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Old 09-17-2009, 03:26 PM
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I have about 750 TnT reloading 158gr SWC Hard Cast bullets. My question is can I shoot them High Velocity (1300-1400 FPS) in front of winchester 296 with out gas checks??? I too want to go back to the Old Days of the .357mag!!! Thanks in advance....

L.G.
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Old 09-17-2009, 06:26 PM
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I have about 750 TnT reloading 158gr SWC Hard Cast bullets. My question is can I shoot them High Velocity (1300-1400 FPS) in front of winchester 296 with out gas checks??? I too want to go back to the Old Days of the .357mag!!! Thanks in advance....

L.G.
Loomis,

If you'll do a search,you'll find a lot of threads devoted to cast bullet use vs leading,etc......About gas checksnly bullets that are designed for them are used with them and I'm assuming your bullets are commercially cast and I furthur assume they're not gas check designs.

Can you load them at full velocity?...Yes but whether or not you'll get leading depends on a number of things like bore smoothness,powder,alloy,lube,bore vs bullet fit,etc.

Can you use 296?...Yes.
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:24 AM
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THanks Yukon,, hey you don't know Sgt Preston do ya??? Can the Hard casts I see in the MIdway catalog be trusted to use high velocity no gas checks (Hunters Supply and I think Oregon Trail also) they say up too 1600 FPS or is that Bull----????

L.G.
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:40 AM
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I once used Hunters Supply 158 grain lead. While I did not load to 1600 fps, as I was loading for 1250 fps in a 6" 686, I did get 1600 fps with that load in my Marlin lever gun. I did not experience leading, but switched to SJSP bullets anyway.
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Old 09-18-2009, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
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THanks Yukon,, hey you don't know Sgt Preston do ya??? Can the Hard casts I see in the MIdway catalog be trusted to use high velocity no gas checks (Hunters Supply and I think Oregon Trail also) they say up too 1600 FPS or is that Bull----????

L.G.

The same load will give leading in one gun and not another.The only way to know is to try them.
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Old 07-27-2017, 05:26 PM
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Why not resurrect an old post instead of creating another new one (and getting critized for not looking things up )?

My favorite all with 158 gr SWC (6 in approx. velocities):

Midrange loads:
6.0 grs Unique 1,045 fps
6.0 grs Universal 1,065 fps
(Both very accurate loads)

Magnum load (ref: Lyman Cast Manual):
13.5 grs 2400 1,250 fps
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Old 07-27-2017, 07:10 PM
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You do realize you brought back from the Abyss an 8 year old thread, right? A new thread is probably good in this case.
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Old 07-27-2017, 07:25 PM
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What is your personal favorite .357 mag load? What is your personal favorite .357 mag load? What is your personal favorite .357 mag load? What is your personal favorite .357 mag load? What is your personal favorite .357 mag load?  
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...but if I had, the "Gotcha Police" would had told me to use our search mode. Probably many new members since 2009 who would like to add their inputs and loads?

It is all fun and informative.

Now, how about HS6 in 357 Mag and 158 gr SWC?
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Old 07-27-2017, 07:46 PM
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Regardless, a search would probably turn up some good information. This is another topic that is covered regularly.

I no longer load any magnum handgun cartridges, but did for decades. From both accuracy and velocity perspectives, I generally found #2400 to be superior to HS-6 using cast SWCs in the 160 grain range. Specifically, I've tried the H&G #51 and Lyman's #358439 (HP version of #358429). I don't specifically recall trying Lyman #358156 and HS-6, but probably did. If so, results must not have been memorable.
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Old 07-27-2017, 08:01 PM
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What is your personal favorite .357 mag load? What is your personal favorite .357 mag load? What is your personal favorite .357 mag load? What is your personal favorite .357 mag load? What is your personal favorite .357 mag load?  
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Kilt squirrel to deer with the old .357 Magnum from the little 110gr JHP
to the large 160 gr. Speer JSP bullet of old, of past goodies.

I have shot powder puff lead to screaming, almost hit you in the forehead recoil loads that wake up the people on the range and have the Range Master on the run !!

However I have to admit that my most favorite loading in the .357 Magnum is a medium loading with the 140 gr XTP bullet.

Accurate and a pleasure to shoot.

Yikes.........
he got me too!
I did not look at the starting date.
I thought there were a lot of post, early...... ?

Last edited by Nevada Ed; 07-28-2017 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 07-27-2017, 08:11 PM
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What is your personal favorite .357 mag load? What is your personal favorite .357 mag load? What is your personal favorite .357 mag load? What is your personal favorite .357 mag load? What is your personal favorite .357 mag load?  
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3.0 grains of Bullseye with 158 SWC in .357 cases. 22 grains of 296 with 125 XTP when I want flame throwing ball busters. Though they are getting fewer as age increases.
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Old 07-27-2017, 09:38 PM
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Lately 158gr XTP hollow point in front of 15.1 grains 296/h-110. Accurate and work really well in my 6" Python.
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:10 PM
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Default 140 JHP and....

...16.5 grains of 2400. Depending onbullet weight, 2400 doesn't give up much at all to 110/296.

I was shooting 125 grains the other day with a max load of 2400 and they made a nice fireball.

Normally it's medium loads with 125 gr. and 158 gr. coated with Unique or about 12.5 grains of 2400.
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Old 07-28-2017, 11:22 AM
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I appreciate that 38SPL HV did the research to bring this back: better to have one big thread on a constant topic than a zillion baby threads (see "Is the .380 good for defense" and other similar threads, for instance). And I found it interesting to see my answer from 8 years ago. Nowadays I pretty much only use Lil' Gun .357 loads in the long tube of the 92 Short Rifle. I found that I get slightly better accuracy with 2400 under the 158s from my 4" guns.

And, here's a loading that I use quite a bit nowadays - it's a little different, but it works well for me:

180-gr Tennessee Valley Bullets or Penn hardcast truncated cone flat point, Federal brass, 9.7 grains of Blue Dot, CCI small standard primer, firm roll crimp - gives me 1230 fps and single-digit deviations from a 3" K-frame. When I go up Bear Canyon this time of year, this is my hiking load in my 4" GP-100 or my 3" SP-101.

Another one that I've come to carry is the Speer short barrel Gold Dot Hollow Point 135-grain bullet in a CBC .357 case over 9.6 grains of Power Pistol and a CCI 500 magnum small pistol primer. It shoots to POA for me out of my 2", 2 1/8" and 3" guns and delivers velocities that are within (admittedly at the high end) the performance envelope of the bullet (backed up by gel tests at the velocities I'm getting). 2400 gives me pretty much the same performance, but with vastly bigger spreads, so I don't use it.
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Old 07-29-2017, 01:10 AM
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Sierra 125 grain JSP over 7.5 grains Unique, but I'm giving N340 a try tomorrow, see if its all that.
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Old 07-29-2017, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
Unique can't make a true magnum load.
Try H110/296 for full-house magnums. Data on Hodgdon website.
That's not the case. It wasn't the case 8 years ago, and it's STILL not the case today.

If you take a maximum load of H110/Win 296 and square it off head to head with a maximum load of Unique in a short barrel revolver with a 125 gr hollow point, you'll find the Unique load is faster. Every time.

For example, 9.0 gr of Unique under a 125 gr XTP will give me an average velocity of 1296 fps in a 3" Model 13. In comparison 19.5 grains of Win 296 will give me an average velocity of just 1132 fps in the same 3" revolver. And, the SD in velocity is lower with Unique - 17 fps versus 237 fps.

Both these Unique and Win 296 loads are about .6 grain under maximum, but the disparity in velocity only gets worse as you approach maximum as the extra 296 just gets blown out the end of the barrel, More importantly, in both cases, the loads reflect the point past which cases start to stick on ejection.

Even in a 6" barrel Unique will be just as fast or even slightly faster than H110/Win 296. Speer's 14th edition lists maximum charge of 9.6 gr of Unique, 20.3 gr for Win 296 and 20.0 for H110 with a 125 gr bullet. (The difference between the Win 296 and H110 numbers underscores the significant lot to lot variation with this powder, given that Hodgdon admits that Win 296 and H110 are the same powder.)

Notably, the velocity for the maximum load of Unique in a 6" barrel is 1,343 fps while it is 1,336 fps and 1,282 fps respectively for the Win 296 and H110 maximum loads.

I do default to Win 296 in my .357 rifles, where 20.0 gr of Win 296 will drive the same 125 gr XTP at 2,170 fps, compared to just 1,600 fps for 9.0 gr of Unique.

In short, in a .357 bore, when using 125 gr bullets, it takes a really long barrel to efficiently use Win 296. That makes it ideal for a rifle or carbine, but it is far less than optimum in a 2.5" to 4" barrel. Even in a 6" barrel it's a dead heat compared to a medium speed powder like Unique when using the 125 gr bullet weight that has been so highly regarded for self defense purposes since the 1960s.

Now to be fair....if you step up to the 158 gr bullet weight, Win 296/H110 will show about a 100 fps velocity advantage in a 6" barrel, and it's closer to a dead heat in a 3" barrel, but Unique is still just as viable with 158 gr bullets with 125 gr bullets in a short barrel concealed carry revolver. Plus, with half the charge weight, recoil with the Unique load is substantially less than with Win 296 launching the bullet at the same velocity.

Too few shooters and hand loaders grasp the fact that the powder charge still has as much mass as it ever did even if it fully combusts. The fact is that the still expanding gas and partially burned powder exits the muzzle at about 3 times the velocity of the bullet, and that mass at that high velocity creates a significant portion of the total recoil.

That's a large part of what drives the myth that slow burning powders like Win 296 will always produce highest velocity in the .357 Magnum, even in a short barrel - or the same view stated in reverse, that "Unique can't make a true magnum load" in a .357 Magnum.

This happens because a shooter will fire a cylinder full of a load with maximum load of Unique, and then fire a cylinder full with a maximum load of Win 296. The Win 296 load will wow the shooter with it's significantly greater recoil, and lacking any chronograph data he'll assume the Win 296 load is launching the bullet faster.

I've observed exactly that with shooters on the range who will swear the 296 load is significantly faster based on recoil. Some of them will continue to swear it even after I show them the chronograph data from the loads they just shot. They'll insist the chronograph data is wrong a recoil wouldn't lie to them. That just underscores their failure to understand that heavier powder charges result in increased recoil.

Updating things a bit to the more recent, Power Pistol has similar performance to Unique in the .357 Magnum, with the same patterns moving from 125 hrs to 158 grains. Unique and Power Pistol are also suitable for 110 gr loads where H110/Win 296 is not. BE-86 is even more recent than Power Pistol and has a burn rate in between Power Pistol and Unique. I have not seen a great deal of .357 Mag load data, but performance should be similar.

So...don't underestimate powders like Unique or Power Pistol when loading the .357 Magnum with 110 and 125 gr bullets.

----

My personal "favorite" loads are:

9.0 grs Unique under a 125 gr XTP (self defense)

20.0 grs of Win 296 under a 125 gr XTP (20" and 24" Model 92 rifle load)

14.0 grs of Win 296 under a 158 gr Xtreme plated bullets (a slower, cheaper rifle load).


I'm not much of a cast bullet fan in the .357 Magnum. Leading is an issue at magnum velocities, - or you need to use a gas check, which eats up the much of the potential costs savings. Even then leading is sometimes still an issue.

If I'm shooting cast bullets in any of my .357 Magnums, I'm doing it with a .38 Special load.

Last edited by BB57; 07-29-2017 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 07-29-2017, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB57 View Post
That's not the case. It wasn't the case 8 years ago, and it's STILL not the case today.

If you take a maximum load of H110/Win 296 and square it off head to head with a maximum load of Unique in a short barrel revolver with a 125 gr hollow point, you'll find the Unique load is faster. Every time.

For example, 9.0 gr of Unique under a 125 gr XTP will give me an average velocity of 1296 fps in a 3" Model 13. In comparison 19.5 grains of Win 296 will give me an average velocity of just 1132 fps in the same 3" revolver. And, the SD in velocity is lower with Unique - 17 fps versus 237 fps.

Both these Unique and Win 296 loads are about .6 grain under maximum, but the disparity in velocity only gets worse as you approach maximum as the extra 296 just gets blown out the end of the barrel, More importantly, in both cases, the loads reflect the point past which cases start to stick on ejection.

Even in a 6" barrel Unique will be just as fast or even slightly faster than H110/Win 296. Speer's 14th edition lists maximum charge of 9.6 gr of Unique, 20.3 gr for Win 296 and 20.0 for H110 with a 125 gr bullet. (The difference between the Win 296 and H110 numbers underscores the significant lot to lot variation with this powder, given that Hodgdon admits that Win 296 and H110 are the same powder.)

Notably, the velocity for the maximum load of Unique in a 6" barrel is 1,343 fps while it is 1,336 fps and 1,282 fps respectively for the Win 296 and H110 maximum loads.

I do default to Win 296 in my .357 rifles, where 20.0 gr of Win 296 will drive the same 125 gr XTP at 2,170 fps, compared to just 1,600 fps for 9.0 gr of Unique.

In short, in a .357 bore, when using 125 gr bullets, it takes a really long barrel to efficiently use Win 296. That makes it ideal for a rifle or carbine, but it is far less than optimum in a 2.5" to 4" barrel. Even in a 6" barrel it's a dead heat compared to a medium speed powder like Unique when using the 125 gr bullet weight that has been so highly regarded for self defense purposes since the 1960s.

Now to be fair....if you step up to the 158 gr bullet weight, Win 296/H110 will show about a 100 fps velocity advantage in a 6" barrel, and it's closer to a dead heat in a 3" barrel, but Unique is still just as viable with 158 gr bullets with 125 gr bullets in a short barrel concealed carry revolver. Plus, with half the charge weight, recoil with the Unique load is substantially less than with Win 296 launching the bullet at the same velocity.

Too few shooters and hand loaders grasp the fact that the powder charge still has as much mass as it ever did even if it fully combusts. The fact is that the still expanding gas and partially burned powder exits the muzzle at about 3 times the velocity of the bullet, and that mass at that high velocity creates a significant portion of the total recoil.

That's a large part of what drives the myth that slow burning powders like Win 296 will always produce highest velocity in the .357 Magnum, even in a short barrel - or the same view stated in reverse, that "Unique can't make a true magnum load" in a .357 Magnum.

This happens because a shooter will fire a cylinder full of a load with maximum load of Unique, and then fire a cylinder full with a maximum load of Win 296. The Win 296 load will wow the shooter with it's significantly greater recoil, and lacking any chronograph data he'll assume the Win 296 load is launching the bullet faster.

I've observed exactly that with shooters on the range who will swear the 296 load is significantly faster based on recoil. Some of them will continue to swear it even after I show them the chronograph data from the loads they just shot. They'll insist the chronograph data is wrong a recoil wouldn't lie to them. That just underscores their failure to understand that heavier powder charges result in increased recoil.

Updating things a bit to the more recent, Power Pistol has similar performance to Unique in the .357 Magnum, with the same patterns moving from 125 hrs to 158 grains. Unique and Power Pistol are also suitable for 110 gr loads where H110/Win 296 is not. BE-86 is even more recent than Power Pistol and has a burn rate in between Power Pistol and Unique. I have not seen a great deal of .357 Mag load data, but performance should be similar.

So...don't underestimate powders like Unique or Power Pistol when loading the .357 Magnum with 110 and 125 gr bullets.

----

My personal "favorite" loads are:

9.0 grs Unique under a 125 gr XTP (self defense)

20.0 grs of Win 296 under a 125 gr XTP (20" and 24" Model 92 rifle load)

14.0 grs of Win 296 under a 158 gr Xtreme plated bullets (a slower, cheaper rifle load).


I'm not much of a cast bullet fan in the .357 Magnum. Leading is an issue at magnum velocities, - or you need to use a gas check, which eats up the much of the potential costs savings. Even then leading is sometimes still an issue.

If I'm shooting cast bullets in any of my .357 Magnums, I'm doing it with a .38 Special load.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Well the last time this posting/information came around I did some testing on my own. I never "published" as it really is not worth it not that it is now. But what the heck. Here goes.


I also see that the firearm has now changed from a Ruger 2" to a SW 3"

Once again the MAX CHARGE of WIN 296 or H110 is NOT 19.5 it is 22.0 gr per Hodgdon. Other data can be of course found elsewhere.

Question:
Do slower powders produce higher velocities in a 357 Mag Short Barrel revolver?

Recoil, blast and flash are not part of this.

Research:
Most reloading data manuals and online powder companies show slower powders do produce higher velocities in tests using longer barrels or test barrels. Hornady may be an exception as their data is usually more "conservative" in all their loads than say Lyman or Speer.There is data going back to Speer #8 that shows higher velocities in short barrels also, Several of the test powders are no longer available. Most all Magnum powders are of the slower burning type. This is also shown in other high pressure calibers,
The adage of "powders that produce the highest velocity in long barrels will also do so in short barrels" Is a pretty well accepted statement. There are of course some who dispute this.
That brings up the fluff of "authoritative" learning vs Observation or Scientific approach? Internet myth. old wives tales? Maybe it needs to be on YouTube to considered "proof"??

What/who is the authority on reload data? It is the powder companies and the reloading manuals, that have done the actual testing.
This is where reloaders/handloaders obtain information!

Sure individuals can do their own tests, but if the data source is not revealed than how can it be compared? If a max load of two powders is compared and the actual data of one of the powders is below the listed max then yes the data will be skewed. That said, one statement on anecdotal evidence doe not prove anything,

As with ALL TESTS results will vary, sometimes a lot.!!
If the data from the current Speer manual/rather than Lyman was used than all these results would be different!


Hypothesis:

Based on reloading manual data and powder companies data, Slower burning powders should produce higher velocities in a short barrel.

This test is based on the information below and is "only a test" of these loads, bullet, firearm and test conditions.
Factors such as specific bullet friction, cylinder gap, exact bore dimensions and other minutia are present but not considered,


Test:

8/12/2016

12 noon
Temp 90F, Humidity 80% (HOT!)
Altitude 4-5' above Sea Level in the Swamp
Moon Phase "Waning Gibbous 69%"
Solar- No abnormal flares reported

Chronograph, Competition Electronics Pro Chrono Digital
10' from bench

Firearm = Ruger SP101, 2.35" Bbl
Brass= Remington .Trimmed to length
Bullet= Speer 125 TMJ FN
COL=1.577, Firm roll crimp at cannelure
Primer=CCI , 550 SPM (all loads)
All powder drops were hand weighed/checked on a calibrated Dillon Eliminator beam scale
Data obtained from Lyman #49 page 357 (yes 357)

Start loads used. Data for HP 38 from Hodgdon

Test Data:

Bullseye 6.5 gr

Avg=1024fps
H-=1031
L=1020
ES=11
SD=5
-----------------
HP 38, 7.3gr

Avg=971 fps
H=1002
L=938
ES=64
SD=32
---------------------
Unique, 7.0gr

Avg=897fps
H=956
L=859
ES=97
SD=38
------------------------------
Power Pistol, 9.0gr

Avg=1066
H=1102
L=1082
ES=74
SD=27
-------------------
2400, 13.0 gr

Avg=1028
H=1043
L=1004
ES=39
SD=21
-----------------------------
H110, 21.0gr

Avg=1200 fps
H=1240
L=1172
ES=68
SD=28

------------------------------

Added Data for Max loads of Unique and H110/ All else remains the same

Unique,9.7 gr

Avg=
1276
H=1297
L=1235
ES=62
SD=24

H110 Compressed, 22.0gr

Avg=1268
H=1299
L=1249
ES=50
SD=19

Strange the high and the low are higher than Unique but the avg is lower? Spikes? Not enough of a sample size?



Conclusion/Review:

In this test, with this gun, on this day. The start load of H110 produced the highest velocity of all powders tested.

That said, based on "experience" and many, many tests of other powders, calibers, some of the powders do not perform well at the lower levels, Many only begin to work well at mid range towards maximum. H110 powder has very little leeway between low and high.

Of course when the charge levels are increased a whole new set of data points will be revealed

A lot of similar testing was done in the past for the 327 Federal Mag in a SW M632 Pro 1-7/8 barrel (not ported)when they first came out. There was almost no data available at that time.
In that cartridge and a 115 gr JHP, H-110 again, produced the highest velocities.

I use a lot of HP38 and Power pistol and find they produce better results at the mid to high range in other calibers.

This test was at the start levels and is not really statistically valid as only 5 shots of each was used. Why? I did not want to use up my expensive JHPs just to collect data,
Also, it is a PITA to adjust the powder measure and weigh each one for 6 different powders, chronographing etc.

I collected, reviewed and enforced "authoritative" statutes, laws, regulations my whole career, doing so in a "hobby' is just not a whole lot of fun.

I also did not test Blue Dot due to Alliants warning, and did not use a SW K frame due to the "internet chatter" of forcing cone erosion with light bullets.

So if someone enjoys testing, collecting data. then that is their enjoyment.

I would rather shoot for accuracy, and do not put much emphasis on if one powder pushes the bullet a tad faster,
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