Hi,
I need some help to identify my grandfather’s revolver.
6" barrel, .38 S&W CTG, 5 bullets, s/n 51XXX.
Please check attached pictures.
Thanks.
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Right-I.JPG

Welcome to the Forum. You have a .38 DA Perfected, similar to the earlier top-breaks but with a cylinder top latch and (usually) the side latch. Yours is missing the side latch, which is an uncommon variation. Others will be along with more info. Nice gun!

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Do you know if it's been re-nickled? I belive the Trigger, Hammer and Top Latch should be case colored.

I'd be happy to own it, enjoy.

Torpedo363,

The .38 DA Perfected Model serial number 1-59,400 were manufactured c. 1909-1920. The variation you have is one of few made without the side release.
The notes say to ID the Perfected Model by the sideplate on the right side of the frame and integral trigger guard. Worth double to triple the standard value.
Nickel is worth 25% premium and a slight premium for a 5 inch barrel.

Hard to tell by the pictures but it looks as if your example has been refinished. That makes for about a 50% less difference when determining the value.

Terry

Hi every one,
A long time ago, my grandfather sent it to re-nickled. Please take a look of this new pictures.
Could you tell me what's the average value?
Thank you for your help.
Enrique
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Torpedo, Welcome to the Forum. That's a very rare variation of the .38 Perfected Model, w/o the side latch, and even with the refinish, it has collector demand. These seldom come up for sale, so it's hard to find any reliable sales data. If it were my gun, a buyer would have to offer in the low four figures to get my interest. Ed.

I request the value just for information purposes. My grandfather is not interested to sell it. He had this gun since 1936 from his father's hands. Sometime in the future, I will inherit it (I hope so!). Anyway, now we know this is a very rare and valuable gun.
Thanks to all of you for help us to identify it.

Hi everyone,
After 10 years from my last post, I return to the forum to share with you that, at the end of the story, I inherited this revolver. I'm truly honored to retain the family property line for this revolver.

After a breif inspection, and according to the attached parts schematic, I determined that it has several defects:
1. The extractor center pin (# P10) is missing.
2. The extractor center pin spring (# P11) is missing.
3. All cylinder chambers were rebored to fire .38 Spl. Wadcutter ammo (a long and terrible story).

I haven't been able to inspect the frame's internal parts yet, because the side plate forward screw (# P24) is REALLY HARD to remove. As soon as I succeed, I will detail the final condition of all parts.

To start, I have some questions:
1. Where can I get replacement parts for the three missing and damaged parts?
2. S&W I Frame cylinders will fit this gun?
3. Is there any kind of interchangeability of parts of other models that can be used in this one?

Thanks for the help!

Attached Images

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I can't really help with your questions but want you to know Im sorry for your loss. No doubt your grandfather had good taste and wisely wanted the revolver kept in the family. Do you live in an area with good access to a quality gunsmith? If he/she cannot source the parts, they can sometimes be manufactured if the right tools are on hand. Pins and springs sound pretty straightforward; I'm sure most 'smiths have a stash of them in various sizes.

By the way, Welcome Back!

Thank you "toddimusnimski" for your kind words. Yes, I received it from him still alive. I'm not a certified gunsmith, but I have over 10 years of experience repairing and restoring gun in my small home workshop. I can reproduce certain parts, but the cylinder is almost impossible for me, so I must get one.

To continue with the inspection, I would like to tell you that I used all the methods I know to remove this little screw from the side plate (freezing, heating, soaking, hammer blows, penetrating oils, etc.) but I had to grind the screw head, so now I also need a screw. Believe me, it was a good fight that has not ended yet, since the screw shank is still there. I think he makes fun of me ...

I was surprised that all the internal parts are in very good condition, there is no visible wear, the edges are still sharp, there is no corrosion, the mechanism works smoothly. The rest of the revolver is in petty good condition, the barrel has some small corrosion pitting, but the riffling is strong and deep.

After getting the cylinder, I plan to restore it to its original factory condition. Since it has already been incorrectly chrome-plated (I understand that the original finish is nickel), I need to remove the chrome and do electrolytic nickel plating, and replace damaged parts. I would like to hear any suggestion.

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At first look, I thought it should be a 38 DA, but the frame is definitely a 38 Perfected/Model 1903. I recall Roy stating that some late examples were sent to South America without the latch. This is a very scarce (and maybe rare) configuration. Neal & Jinks book notes one example 52,108 lacked the thumb-latch, but made no mention about the South America connection.

I wanted to add that the first set of images you provided in your 2010 post look to have a slightly yellow tinted plating?? If so, that is nickel. Chrome shows as silver, not yellow?? Just asking since if already nickel, I would leave it.

BTW, if you are keeping it ". . . to retain the family property line for this revolver . . ." then why mess with the plating at all? It was that way before it came to you, not after, so your family ancestors knew the gun the way it is right now. I would certainly try to get it back to functioning properly.

It is really hard to find parts, but the option is to purchase a donor gun. If you are repairing the cylinder assembly, look for parts of donor gun, the parts will need to come from a 38 DA,, 4th Model. The internals, however, are most likely from a Model 1903, 5th Change revolver, except for the thumb release assembly.

As for the broken screw, I would use a soldering iron and heat the remainder of the screw until hot, then spray in penetrating oil. It should be hot enough for the oil to smoke. Do this a few times and try to remove it with heavy needle nosed pliers. Only other option is to drill out the stud without removing the threads in the frame. Tricky, but possible.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I learn something new on the forum every day, it seems. I had no idea .38 DA Perfected were ever made W/O the side-latch.

It's a rare bird that's for sure with a the long barrel as well?

Some painstaking work with drilling out screws and dealing with a cylinder that's been altered to .38 special? Which really is not possible since the diameter of the chamber is too large to begin with so I suspect it didn't turn out too well?

All projects seem to have hurtles though. My only recommendation is to keep the gun stored as assembled as possible? Don't leave it for any length of time in pieces. They tend to get lost or misplaced. Then you really have a mess.

Was the cylinder chambers alteration (honing) done well or just someone decided to use a drill? In other words? How bad is it? I honestly don't see an affordable repair for that. Can you provide a photo of the chambers?

I'm not sure if the Perfected .38 cylinder is the same as the earlier Model 3-5 Top breaks though. If it is? It shouldn't be hard to find a replacement. If you can't find one? Let me know. I have several spares I think. I'd have to look in my cylinder box. Matching color will be difficult though.

Also, the gun has been heavily buffed. To remove what finish is left and then attempt to apply a new nickel finish In my opinion would turn out very poorly. It would amplify the buffing even more. It looks really good as it is. I would focus on the action repair. Looking at what's left of that stuck screw? It's time to carefully drill it out. It's not really that difficult. Just time consuming. I always use my drill Press and end up having to re-tap the threads. Every once in a while I get lucky and the stuck screw threads come out with an easy out after center drilling.


Murph

My opinion is to leave the cylinder as it is. I assume that the charge holes in the cylinder were lengthened to accommodate the .38 Special.

A .38 S&W is .361" and a .38 Special is .357". The .38 S&W case will headspace off the rim so that the chamber length and case stop that were altered/removed for the .38 Special are not needed for the .38 S&W.

Parts #10 and #11 can be made by a local machinist or sourced through someone here on the forum. The screw threads for part #10 are S&W and are odd-ball as are the other threads.

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Mike Maher #283

Well,
I think that I have seen probably 9 out of 10 cylinder reaming jobs that are done very poorly. Leaving A well defined and somewhat embarrassing corkscrew Signature by the unqualified perpetrator using a standard drill bit? Instead of using the proper gunsmith reaming jig to polish slowing and maintaining a perfectly round chamber?
Plus the real problem here is that the 38 S&W chambers even before the reaming are too large for the 38 Special.

Notice the case width of the 38 S&W is actually wider than the 38 special! ( see photos) Try to chamber a 38 S&W in a 38 Special cylinder. It will not chamber!

So after reaming out the 38 S&W cylinder to chamber the longer 38 special Wadcutter only? You’ll find the case will rattle around in there a bit because it’s undersized to begin with!

38 S&W case width= .385

38 Special case width = .379

That’s a problem!

Murph

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Leave the cylinder alone and find the other parts. Then sell the revolver to someone en los Estados Unitos as these are very rare in the United States.

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Mike Maher #283