32 Safety Hammerless 1st model questions

[WE0H]

I ran across a 32 Safety Hammerless 1st model with a 1-1/2" barrel today. It is nickel plated. Front sight is pin-less which seems strange to me. It has the early latch. The bore is pitted but the rifling is strong. No rust to be concerned about. The sideplate is scratched with someones initials and a date of 1963. The action functions but sometimes does not push the hammer back by what I can feel in the trigger. You know what I mean. OK, the huge question, the seller wants $79.00 for it. Should I buy it or pass on it?

Mike

[Masterpiece]

Mike,

Could you could post a couple of photos?? I believe what you are looking at is a 3rd Model not a 1st as you've stated. 1st's,2nd's & even some Early 3rd Models all had Pinned Sights. The Later 3rd Models incorporated a Forged Front Sight as you're describing. Also,are you sure you measured the Barrel Length correctly? Measure it from the Rear Face of the Cylinder to the Tip of the Barrel and let us know what you get. The price sounds alright,but without photos to see the condition I don't think I'd grab it and run!!

[opoefc]

Regardless, It's probably got $79 plus worth of parts. I'd jump n it in a second! Ed.

[WE0H]

Here's something that might be a clue: the front sight is a inserted blade. Not forged, no pin. There is the usual patent stamping on the barrel top but the slot for the sight is carved right into the stamping. The slot is not too long or homebrew looking. It truly looks factory but no pin and not forged one piece with the barrel. I looked real close to see if it was a cut barrel but it has the normal smooth muzzle shape and the nickel looks factory. Did those special 1-1/2" barrel 32's have a factory cut barrel right thru the stampings on the top of the barrel or not? The serial number is 151xxx. I don't recall the last three digits. This is a top break 5 shot revolver in 32 S&W. The top latch is the old style, not the wide 3rd model type. I own a 32 3rd model and this one looks more crudly machined on the slots on the cylinder compared to my 3rd Model Lemon Squeezer If pictures are a must, I can drive back to the store and get them as long as someone else hasn't snapped this gun up yet. My concerns are the action not functioning 100% on some trigger pulls, the repaired grip, scratched side plate, pitted bore, & the strange front sight in a slot right in the middle of the patent stamping. If the action was 100% I would have bought it, I just don't know what parts it would need and if they were available at a reasonable price to bring it back to functional condition.

Thanks much,
Mike

[alaskavett]

Sounds like the barrel has been cut as S&W never to my knowledge put the sight in the middle of the pat.dates. That said it has most likely been re plated. Still, I would have bought it. Kyle

[WE0H]

Originally Posted by alaskavett

Sounds like the barrel has been cut as S&W never to my knowledge put the sight in the middle of the pat.dates. That said it has most likely been re plated. Still, I would have bought it. Kyle

Serious? Can I find parts to bring the action back to usable? It has 80% nickel finish. Some pealing on the cylinder but not way nuts like an old IJ would have from this era. It would likely be something I would repair and resell as I don't have a use for a snub nose. I only target shoot my pistols

Mike

[Dosgatos]

#151xxx makes it a second model unless you are off one digit and the number is 151xx. The barrel was cut - it is not factory. I saw a gun like this sell at an auction 11/09 for $225. That doesn't mean it was worth it - I personally wouldn't pay that. You could probably make some money on it after you repair it, but would it be worth the hassle to you?

[WE0H]

Originally Posted by Dosgatos

#151xxx makes it a second model unless you are off one digit and the number is 151xx. The barrel was cut - it is not factory. I saw a gun like this sell at an auction 11/09 for $225. That doesn't mean it was worth it - I personally wouldn't pay that. You could probably make some money on it after you repair it, but would it be worth the hassle to you?

That's my way of thinking. It is deemed not original, needs parts which would further take it away from original, collectors would scoff at the sight of such a modified gun. The whole thing had me and my son scratching our heads today. If it was way cheaper, sure I would pick it up as there is plenty of room for repair parts and to sell it for a few bucks to add to my future purchases.

Mike

[Göring's S&W]

Regarding the barrel length - when a barrel is a factory short length in these, such as the bicycle guns or short barrel spurs, S&W patent dates are placed on the side of the barrel, usually the left. Thats the best way to know if the barrel is S&W original length or not. Even then, there are still the issues of whether the barrel SNs to the particular gun or not.

I agree with everyone else that for parts alone, its worth $79. You could separate the parts and sell them for more or you could restore it to functioning condition BUT it would still have a cut barrel which most S&W collectors would pass on and the cartridge is too anemic for a serious CCW.

Despite all of this, for $79 OTD, ya I'm buying it and adding it to the pile.

[WE0H]

Makes a guy wonder when the barrel was cut and why. Then to make the muzzle look factory like with the nickel finish, shaking my head why someone would do such a task

I am going back to that store on Saturday, if it is still there, I might pull the trigger and drop down my funds on the counter I have one other place to visit that I have found neat old guns at before. I get this itch to buy old guns when I travel

Thanks everyone for the advice today. Very much appreciated.

Mike

[WE0H]

I have been looking at auctions, pictures and more pictures of both 2nd Model & 1st Model and I know this gun has the 1st Model push button latch. I must have goofed on that serial number It looks exactly like all the 1st Model's I have looked at tonight. Numrich sells barrels for these for $52.65, would it be worth it to rebuild it back into what it was originally even though the serial numbers would not match? It'd be a shooter then, but is it safe with the factory ammo sold today?

Just thinking of options before I totally walk away from this gun, if it isn't already long gone

Thanks,
Mike

[Dosgatos]

Yes, it is safe with today's ammo. As for rebuilding it, walk away and buy one in working order for $150.

[cflier]

S&W made a very few special order 1 1/2 inch 1st model 32 Safety Hammerless. The front sight was pinned. In fact the first known 1 1/2 inch barrel shipped before the first known 2 inch barrel. They were both special order items that early. Also, i keep seeing people on line stating that all third model 32 Safety's had forged front sights. Many of the short barreled 3rd models 32s had a pinned front sight. I have a 3rd model 32 with a 1 1/2 inch barrel and it has a factory pinned front sight as the factory letter says it should. I believe that by the time the third model came on line the guns weren't selling well. When an order came in for a short barrel gun the factory would cut the front of a longer barrel off and pin the sight before finishing or assembling. My opinion, but my observations seem to bear it out.

[WE0H]

This thread has been a learning experience. So nice to have you knowledgeable guys in here. I was kicking myself in the behind for not bringing my books along on this trip. I should have known better that a strange gun would crop up and leave me puzzled. Thanks to this forum, I am not dropping my bucks down on something I thought was a rare piece and later finding out it was just some gun someone hacked up. So now I take it that I should take my money and run the other direction real fast I sure hope I can find something neat to buy on this trip

Mike

[duoglide]

You can buy a new barrel, but I was cautioned when I bought mine to not fire it if the hash mark on the barrel to frame screw was not aligned. Something about the timing that is above my level of experience.

[WE0H]

I think I know what you mean by that mark. I have seen them on other break top revolvers and wondered what it was there for. Some of the oldie revolvers would be fine shooting wax bullets but I would be scared to shoot lead out of them. It would be nice if there was some very low powered ammo for the 32's similar to the Super Colibri 22 ammo.

Mike

[Dosgatos]

That "hash mark" has nothing to do with the timing of the revolver. The marks on the frame and the Joint Pivot indicate the correct position for the little nubbin on the back of the Joint Pivot to fit into the frame, so that the Joint Pivot doesn't rotate and unscrew itself when the barrel is opened.