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Old 02-16-2011, 10:34 PM
Dosgatos Dosgatos is offline
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I have a 1st Model Single .22 shot #23694 with matching numbers on the front grip strap, barrel, latch, and in pencil on the inside of the right hard-rubber extension stock. The 10" barrel is marked "Model of 91" and the serial number is followed by a "B". Neal & Jinks lists .22 barrel serial numbers for this model, but none in this serial number range - the highest is #18873. What am I not understanding, and what is the significance of the "B" after the serial number on the barrel?
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:56 PM
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I believe the B means it left the factory as a blue finish gun. I have several with that mark.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:51 AM
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Check between the ears of the barrel latch, and see if the barrel is numbered to the frame. There was quite a good discussion on this recently. Scroll down and you should find it. Not unusual for barrel and frame to be a mismatch.
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Old 02-17-2011, 01:18 PM
Dosgatos Dosgatos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H Richard View Post
Check between the ears of the barrel latch, and see if the barrel is numbered to the frame. There was quite a good discussion on this recently. Scroll down and you should find it. Not unusual for barrel and frame to be a mismatch.
As stated, all the numbers match. The barrel number is the same as the frame and the barrel latch, except followed by a "B", as in #23694B. I've been following the discussion you mention, but it does not answer that question. Also, the serial number of this gun does not fall within the range mentioned by Neal & Jinks - the numbers of .22s go no higher than #18873
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:27 PM
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I at one time had a high number first model with the serial number ending with a B. I'm working from memory, which ain't what it used to be, but I believe it lettered as a duplicate serial number. While looking to see if I had any records or a copy of the letter, I noticed that my third model is number 9371D. Might be time for another letter!

Bob
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:58 PM
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Could a B or D marked barrel be one of a multi barrel set? That would be worth a letter.
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:20 PM
Dosgatos Dosgatos is offline
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Quote:
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Could a B or D marked barrel be one of a multi barrel set? That would be worth a letter.
That's probably a good idea and worth $50.

The gun is ornately inscribed with the name "Morve Weaver". All I could find out was that Morve L. Weaver was the City Engineer at Visalia CA after the turn of the century, and that he wrote an article about Custer for "Frontier Times" magazine. Anyone know anything about this gentleman? Having his name engraved on a Single Shot probably meant he was something of competitive shooter.
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Old 02-20-2011, 04:41 PM
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The serial numbers of 1st Model SS's could run as high as 28,107----see N&J, page 29. The serial number 18873 (N&J, page 35) was the highest KNOWN 1st Model .22 SS at the time N&J was written------which was a long, long time ago. And on page 32, you will note the cop-out clause: "it is known that these lists are not complete." Like the man said, get a letter.

Ralph Tremaine
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:31 AM
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Dosgatos,
I have seen the letter b at the end of some later model single shots. Most of them are number with some digits stamped inside both ears on the barrel.
GREAT!! Another item to research!!
Terry
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rct269 View Post
The serial numbers of 1st Model SS's could run as high as 28,107----see N&J, page 29. The serial number 18873 (N&J, page 35) was the highest KNOWN 1st Model .22 SS at the time N&J was written------which was a long, long time ago. And on page 32, you will note the cop-out clause: "it is known that these lists are not complete." Like the man said, get a letter.

Ralph Tremaine
Do you think the list are incomplete because of all the changes and 1st / 2nd model type frame being used. Maybe the use of earlier barrel numbers caused the employee keeping the list to give up?

Terry Wagner
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:59 PM
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I think the lists are incomplete because S&W kept those records necessary for them to run their business---------instead of keeping records to keep lunatic fringe gun collectors happy----more's the pity!! Then again, I think S&W very likely moved old records out of the way after a spell so they'd have room for new records. I think some of those old records probably got lost along the way------and guess what?!! Nobody cared----------except for you and I----and a few other lunatic fringe gun collectors------and the S&W Historian----who still keeps digging.

And the reason you should GET A LETTER is because the author of that letter is still digging, and may very well have stumbled across something about five minutes ago which will answer all your questions.

And that brings up another point: If all you do is send in your money and ask for a letter, you're going to get a "plain vanilla" letter. If you ask pointed, specific questions you're going to get a letter with pointed, specific answers.

And that, unfortunately, brings up yet another point: Mr. Jinks has been known to get a little cranky every now and then. He's not very nice when he's cranky. One thing he gets cranky about is when folks ask questions which have already been answered in one of his several books. I reckon he figures if the folks didn't think his books were worth reading--------and studying------carefully----and thoroughly, before they ask their (therefore not particulary good) questions; then he's more than a little inclined to slap you "upside the head"----figuratively speaking, of course. You will not enjoy that experience.

Ralph Tremaine
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:50 PM
Dosgatos Dosgatos is offline
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I sprung for the $50 letter, although Roy has already dated the gun for me as having been shipped in March of 1905. What really peaks my curiosity is the engraving, though it would be too much to expect the gun to have been shipped directly to him:
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:38 PM
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I have many guns that were shipped directly to individuals. I have yet to be able to track down any additional information on any of them, but that comes under the heading of a personal problem. You have a head start---------your individual had his name on the gun!!

The engraving does not appear to be "cut through the blue". Similarly, the gun does not appear to have been refinished. With nothing else to go on, it would not surprise me to learn the engaving was factory and the gun was shipped directly to Weaver-----or to whomever it may have been that gave the gun to him. Given the very small amount of engraving, the records may not indicate that it was engraved; but they will almost certainly indicate the gun was a "special order"-------if that was the case. (I have three top-break target guns with un-numbered latches. All three letter as "special orders"---and as shipped with target sights. The letters do not indicate the nature of the "special order"-----but the only thing "special" about any of them is the sights----------as in: 2+2= 4!!)

Let us know what you learn.

Ralph Tremaine
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