Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Notices

S&W Antiques S&W Lever Action Pistols, Tip-Up Revolvers, Top-Break Revolvers, and ALL Single Shots


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-28-2011, 09:28 PM
skeezix's Avatar
skeezix skeezix is offline
SWCA Member
I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: West Texas
Posts: 1,175
Likes: 85
Liked 722 Times in 167 Posts
Default I got this old Schofield........

Back story: Belongs to a friend of a friend who bought a house and found it in the top of a closet. He broke it open and the ejector stuck in the out position and I'm trying to get it un-stuck and clean it up. It's missing a side-plate screw. I was able to get the lower "swivel" screw out and the pin and bushing.

Here are left and right pics of the gun. It's heavily rusted and pitted, but all springs are still good and it will cock and "fire". I'm in the process of soaking with Kroil and brushing with a brass brush to remove the rust.



Here are close-ups of the roll marks on the left and right sides. Has patent dates on the left and says
"Schofield" on the right.



Here's the butt - stamped "US" and s/n is 1751.


Grips still have some of the original varnish on the outside and there is a faint cartouche mark on the bottom of the left panel. The right panel is numbered to the gun. The left panel has some writing in pencil which I haven't fully deciphered yet, but it appears to be a name and date.



The bore is rusty and pitted but the rifling is still in there.


All the screws are boogered and if I can get the two out of the top of the left side above the cylinder, I can remove the cylinder and work on the stuck ejector problem. For now my game plan is continue to pour the Kroil to them and see if they'll loosen up, but I would appreciate any advice on getting them (and others) loose.

Since everything "works", I assume it would shoot once I get the bore clean and get everything else functioning.




So, the questions are:
  1. What is it?
  2. What cartridge is it chambered for?
  3. Assuming I can get all the rust off, and maybe get the side plate off and clean up the inside, and find a side plate screw -- what's this old gun worth? (I might try to buy it if I can get it at the right price.)
Anything you folks can tell me and help me out with is greatly appreciated. If there's more info or more pics needed, I'll do the best I can.


Thanks!
__________________
Lorin
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #2  
Old 11-28-2011, 10:01 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas
Posts: 27,343
Likes: 32
Liked 19,830 Times in 10,292 Posts
Default

It appears to be a S&W Schofield Model, in .45 S&W (a short-cased version of the .45 Colt). It was a competitor to the Colt Model P, and was for a time an official U. S. Army revolver. A real keeper, even in that relic condition. Lots of information on the internet about it. You could have a prize.

Last edited by DWalt; 11-28-2011 at 10:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-29-2011, 10:11 AM
glowe's Avatar
glowe glowe is offline
US Veteran

I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Michigan Western UP
Posts: 9,734
Likes: 1,251
Liked 7,275 Times in 3,296 Posts
Default

Can you get the extractor cam out of the frame? If so, that may free up the extractor stud and the star extractor mechanism.

I have had luck with an old double boiler and some cheap 10 weight motor oil. I hate to apply flame heat directly to the metal to free up parts, so I boil water in the bottom pan and submerge the gun or parts in oil in the upper pan. The heat allows the oil to penetrate into all the rust much faster to remove stubborn parts and screws. Usually 10 or 15 minutes does the trick. A last resort, but it works, is using Naval Jelly. I would not recommend this with a gun that has any original finish left, but if there is no finish left or you are going to refinish anyway, Injecting Naval Jelly with a syringe will definitely dissolve rust.

That is a great old Schofield 1st Model. With that serial number, I think it was shipped in 1875. Only about 3000 were made and they are a great part of S&W history.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-29-2011, 01:41 PM
skeezix's Avatar
skeezix skeezix is offline
SWCA Member
I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: West Texas
Posts: 1,175
Likes: 85
Liked 722 Times in 167 Posts
Default

Is this the extractor cam?


I found an old parts diagram but there's nothing identified as an extractor cam.
__________________
Lorin
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-29-2011, 04:11 PM
glowe's Avatar
glowe glowe is offline
US Veteran

I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Michigan Western UP
Posts: 9,734
Likes: 1,251
Liked 7,275 Times in 3,296 Posts
Default

Yes. If that did not free up the star extractor, then you have some serious binding inside the cylinder or under-barrel area. You should be able to push the extractor back into the cylinder once you remove the extractor.

I think this is a candidate for boiling oil!

This schematic might help you with the innards of the extractor mechanism for the Schofield.
Attached Thumbnails
I got this old Schofield........-untitled-jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-30-2011, 08:33 PM
skeezix's Avatar
skeezix skeezix is offline
SWCA Member
I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: West Texas
Posts: 1,175
Likes: 85
Liked 722 Times in 167 Posts
Default

I'm back with more info and questions.

I think I found the reason the ejector star wont go back into battery.

Looking at the cam opening from the bottom, there is a horizontally serrated block of metal (A) which is below the forward end of the ejector rod. I have some basic schematics and that part isn't shown.


I can insert an L-shaped probe under this part and push the ejector rod rearward.

Looking at this part from the front, there seems to be an estension of some sort on it (C). I have no idea what that is for. At the rear, there is a small gap (B) between it and the "frame".


I assume this block A is there for the cam to ride on. I can't see how it is held in place - no pins, but there may be grooves milled into the sides of the frame to hold it. Or it may just be a friction fit.

I think this block A has somehow moved up and is blocking the ejector shaft from returning to battery.

Could someone who has a 1st model look at his gun and see if that gap B is there?

If this is the problem, I haven't figured out yet how to safely move part A back to its original position. I don't want to force anything and take the chance of breaking or boogering-up something. It might be easier if I can get those screws out of the top strap above the cylinder and remove the cylinder. I'm still soaking them with Kroil and hoping it will eventually penetrate and loosen them up. No way Mrs. Skeezix would condone me using her good double boiler for a hot-oil treatment on her cook top, and I'm not going to invest in a cheap hot-plate and double boiler unless I can buy the gun. So, for now I'm looking for a cheap fix.
__________________
Lorin
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-30-2011, 09:16 PM
glowe's Avatar
glowe glowe is offline
US Veteran

I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Michigan Western UP
Posts: 9,734
Likes: 1,251
Liked 7,275 Times in 3,296 Posts
Default

I am not sure without seeing it in person, but it looks like a tube in the picture that is crushed on the end and flattened on the bottom. If so, that would be the base pin (part 879 on my schematic) shoved too far forward and crushed by the extractor. It may also be something that someone jerry-rigged long ago. To be sure, try to turn the screw at the rear of the topstrap and tilt the strap up until the cylinder will slide out rearward. Sometimes those screws don't work the way they were designed, so just remove that back screw (907) completely, loosen the front screw (906) and lift up on the strap. With the cylinder removed, you should be able to see the base pin, which is a hollow tube. Problem is that is not going to be an easy part to replace. Your screws look to be in bad shape and if they do not loosen up, only alternative is to drill them out (or have a gunsmith do it). Dave Chicoine might have replacement screws, but I would check around first.

Only a guess without having it in hand, but you should be able to remove the cylinder if you can loosen the screws. That area might be a candidate for some Naval Jelly to eat up the rust. Just stick that strap area in a container filled with the jelly and let it set for up to 24 hours to work its way into the threads. As I said, if that does not work, drilling them out is the only solution.

Last edited by glowe; 11-30-2011 at 09:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-30-2011, 09:22 PM
Biginge Biginge is offline
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: East of San Antone
Posts: 2,573
Likes: 3,410
Liked 4,658 Times in 1,157 Posts
Default

I have had real good luck with soaking 24 hrs. in automatic transmission fluid, then a rinse with brake parts cleaner (aerosol), compressed air and then Kroil.

Regards

Bill
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-01-2011, 08:36 AM
skeezix's Avatar
skeezix skeezix is offline
SWCA Member
I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: West Texas
Posts: 1,175
Likes: 85
Liked 722 Times in 167 Posts
Default

Thanks for the further replies and advice.

The part A in my pic doesn't look like a crushed or flattened tube from what I can see of it. But it may be, and whatever it is seems to be preventing the ejector shaft from moving all the way forward.

I'm now soaking in Naval jelly to see if that will loosen those # 906 and 907 screws. If that don't work, I'll try transmission fluid - that stuff is cheap enough that I can soak the whole gun in it.
__________________
Lorin
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-01-2011, 10:19 AM
glowe's Avatar
glowe glowe is offline
US Veteran

I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Michigan Western UP
Posts: 9,734
Likes: 1,251
Liked 7,275 Times in 3,296 Posts
Default

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-06-2011, 07:37 PM
TheNorthFace TheNorthFace is offline
Member
I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

nice!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-07-2011, 01:36 PM
twaits's Avatar
twaits twaits is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Windham, Maine
Posts: 1,358
Likes: 29
Liked 416 Times in 113 Posts
Default

I love these kind of stories. And a Schofield no less!
Good luck with the clean up!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-21-2014, 07:15 AM
RipClaaw RipClaaw is offline
Member
I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glowe View Post
Can you get the extractor cam out of the frame? If so, that may free up the extractor stud and the star extractor mechanism.

I have had luck with an old double boiler and some cheap 10 weight motor oil. I hate to apply flame heat directly to the metal to free up parts, so I boil water in the bottom pan and submerge the gun or parts in oil in the upper pan. The heat allows the oil to penetrate into all the rust much faster to remove stubborn parts and screws. Usually 10 or 15 minutes does the trick. A last resort, but it works, is using Naval Jelly. I would not recommend this with a gun that has any original finish left, but if there is no finish left or you are going to refinish anyway, Injecting Naval Jelly with a syringe will definitely dissolve rust.

That is a great old Schofield 1st Model. With that serial number, I think it was shipped in 1875. Only about 3000 were made and they are a great part of S&W history.
Question... Looking at the picture it looks like it says 1873. However you mentioned with that serial number it would have been shipped in 1875? Not sure what I am missing. I have a serial number 3854 which also clearly says 1873 on the side. What am I looking at here?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-21-2014, 09:52 AM
glowe's Avatar
glowe glowe is offline
US Veteran

I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Michigan Western UP
Posts: 9,734
Likes: 1,251
Liked 7,275 Times in 3,296 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RipClaaw View Post
Question... Looking at the picture it looks like it says 1873. However you mentioned with that serial number it would have been shipped in 1875? Not sure what I am missing. I have a serial number 3854 which also clearly says 1873 on the side. What am I looking at here?
That is the latest patent date, along with other earlier ones. It should read APR 22nd 73. It has nothing to do with when the gun was made or shipped, since patent dates do not change and this one remained the last patent issued related to the Schofield.
__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-21-2014, 02:00 PM
opoefc opoefc is offline
US Veteran
I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........ I got this old Schofield........  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 9,673
Likes: 2,488
Liked 5,082 Times in 2,188 Posts
Default

Skeezix, Get yourself a copy of David Chicoine's "Antiques Firearms, Assembly & Disassembly" published by Gun Digest. Page 274 starts a detailed description of the Schofield, that will answer your questions. Condition is everything when it comes to value of Schofields, and this gun has serious finish defects, however if you get the gun in a safe working and mechanical condition, it is worth approximately $2300 - $2700 in today's market. Good Luck. Ed.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cartridge, colt, ejector, extractor, gunsmith, schofield, serrated

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
schofield????? BigBill Smith & Wesson - The Wish List 5 01-20-2014 04:04 PM
Schofield looking for a S&W Performace Schofield BSchofield WANTED to Buy 1 08-03-2012 02:04 PM
S&W Schofield DavidC77 Smith & Wesson - The Wish List 7 11-11-2009 09:58 PM
.22 Cal Schofield pocketpistol S&W Antiques 12 10-12-2009 12:30 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:15 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)