My first Antique...."GOOD SIR, I CHALLENGE YOU TO A DUEL!"

[peppercorn]

I couldn't resist the title as I found that when I held this piece of history for the first time that that was the first thing that came to my mind.

I was originally going to just have it as a collection piece but the more I handled it the more I wanted to bring it back to life with some live rounds.
After some research here and in other places I decided to stick with a Back Powder cartridge given that that was what it was originally designed for.

I thought that it would add to the experience if I loaded my own cartridges so I set about doing just that.

I was happy to find that all of what I would need was readily available, form lead bullets to dies and brass.

The first time I fired the gun I felt as though I had stepped back in time 135 years.
Once the smoke cleared from the first five rounds there were quite a few questions from the folks on either side of me as to what I was shooting.
I certainly won't be shooting this one weekly but every now and then I will and each time I am sure it will be another great experience.

[blackdeuce]

Wouldn't it be neat if that gun could talk...... Cool gun.

How did it shoot? Could you hit your target?

I don't know beans about those old guns. My first thought was "there's no trigger".

[peppercorn]

Originally Posted by blackdeuce

Wouldn't it be neat if that gun could talk...... Cool gun.

How did it shoot? Could you hit your target?

I don't know beans about those old guns. My first thought was "there's no trigger".

Now that is funny. I have to admit that the first time I saw one I too did a double take on the trigger.

It had quite a bit more 'kick' than I had anticipated which, for its small size, makes sense to me now.
The bore is pitted so I didn't have high expectations however I was able to group about 8 inches, off hand at 20 yards.
The front sight is very thin so it is difficult to see in outdoor lighting. I would think it would do much better closer in but, since I shot this one last out of four other revolvers, I was too lazy to move my target up.

[glowe]

Antique S&Ws are addictive. I am always curious about how a particular model looks, feels, and shoots, so I end up with one . . . or more of a new model. Shoot them all and like to think about how long it had been since they were shot last. I particularly like the tip-ups, since they represent such fine craftsmanship and are true technological marvels of the 1860's.

Now to your loads . . . You are shooting quite a stout load there. Pyrodex always seems hotter than BP to me and certainly is the case with FFFF equivalent. I have done quite a bit of velocity testing with 38 S&W and find that the lowest velocities actually come from current factory loads, with FF BP higher and Pryrodex RS (FF equivalent) the highest velocity of all. You are actually shooting 3F powder which is hotter than RS and you might try RS (volume measure not weight) if you want the BP experience without the pressures generated by 15 grains of 3F Pyrodex. Also, you can back off the weight of the bullet to reduce pressures and felt recoil even further. I like 125 grains instead of the standard 145 grain RN. Anyway, Model 1 1/2 38 S&W are fun to shoot, but I guess they are all fun to shoot.

[hunman55]

Nice experience and a great old gun. That's what reloading and shooting is all about.

[peppercorn]

Originally Posted by glowe

Antique S&Ws are addictive. I am always curious about how a particular model looks, feels, and shoots, so I end up with one . . . or more of a new model. Shoot them all and like to think about how long it had been since they were shot last. I particularly like the tip-ups, since they represent such fine craftsmanship and are true technological marvels of the 1860's.

Now to your loads . . . You are shooting quite a stout load there. Pyrodex always seems hotter than BP to me and certainly is the case with FFFF equivalent. I have done quite a bit of velocity testing with 38 S&W and find that the lowest velocities actually come from current factory loads, with FF BP higher and Pryrodex RS (FF equivalent) the highest velocity of all. You are actually shooting 3F powder which is hotter than RS and you might try RS (volume measure not weight) if you want the BP experience without the pressures generated by 15 grains of 3F Pyrodex. Also, you can back off the weight of the bullet to reduce pressures and felt recoil even further. I like 125 grains instead of the standard 145 grain RN. Anyway, Model 1 1/2 38 S&W are fun to shoot, but I guess they are all fun to shoot.

Thanks alot guys.

Glowe,

I went with a powder compression of .120'' once the bullet was seated. It was stated that the compression should be in the .100'' to .150'' range.
Once I determined my volume I weighed that charge and it came out to right around 9grns.
I also read somewhere that 15grns was a standard S&W .38load which mirrors what you have stated above.

Given the above would you still consider this a 'stout' load?
Also, where would I find 125grn bullets?

Thanks for the info.

[opoefc]

If they are tight and in good mechanical condition, these old top breaks shoot just fine with modern .38 S&W smokeless rounds, however you don't get the effect of the cloud of white smoke, that you do with black powder ammo. Of course the question is: " If it's black powder, why does it make white smoke?"

Ed.

[Thuer]

A couple years ago I did shoot my second model .38.
I did used 8 grain Swiss no 2 and a .38 s&w bullet. I was surprised by his accuracy.
At a distance of 25 meter I did shoot some 10 and 9 in the paper target.
This is really a good pocket revolver.

[glowe]

Originally Posted by peppercorn

Thanks alot guys.

Once I determined my volume I weighed that charge and it came out to right around 9grns.

Given the above would you still consider this a 'stout' load?
Also, where would I find 125grn bullets?

Thanks for the info.

Pyrodex powder is measured by volume not weight. This black powder substitute is lighter than BP. If you have a BP volume measure, take a single load and dump it in. You should find the volume measure closer to 15 grains. As you stated, the correct amount of BP or substitute is filling the case to the point that the bullet slightly compresses the powder when seated. I would give RS a try, since the granules are larger and will load the same volume with less weight than "P", giving you a lighter load.

I have bought 125 grain .358" lead bullets from the following site, but have a bullet mould now that is 125 grain .360" round nose. I have shot both these bullets as well as 145 grain and find no difference in accuracy in my Baby Russians. These spur triggers are not tack drivers anyway.

.38 125 grain Lead bullet

[monet61]

peppercorn;
Nice story and great photos.

[peppercorn]

Originally Posted by glowe

Pyrodex powder is measured by volume not weight. This black powder substitute is lighter than BP. If you have a BP volume measure, take a single load and dump it in. You should find the volume measure closer to 15 grains. As you stated, the correct amount of BP or substitute is filling the case to the point that the bullet slightly compresses the powder when seated. I would give RS a try, since the granules are larger and will load the same volume with less weight than "P", giving you a lighter load.

I have bought 125 grain .358" lead bullets from the following site, but have a bullet mould now that is 125 grain .360" round nose. I have shot both these bullets as well as 145 grain and find no difference in accuracy in my Baby Russians. These spur triggers are not tack drivers anyway.

.38 125 grain Lead bullet

I will try the 'P' and see what that load feels like. I may give those lighter bullets a try also. I think I have about 450 of the .146 bullets left still however.

[STCM(SW)]

I like a load that I have tried in the .38 S&W, 195 gr LRN & 2.6 gr of Trail Boss.