I saw an early empty ammo box that was marked " S&W No.1 Pistol Cartridges". What caliber would they have been?

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Cliff

.22 Short. The black powder version. Nice find if you could buy it at the right price, and even better if it contained cartridges.

Thanks. I thought it might be .22 short.

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Cliff

Cliff,

Was the Box for sale?? If so, what was the asking price?? That Box is Very Hard to Find & was the First Ammo manufactured by S&W!!

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Masterpiece

Back then it wasn't called a .22 Short, as the .22 Long and .22 Long Rifle hadn't been invented yet. A box of No. 1 ammunition in any reasonable condition is a prize, even if empty. This is the first cartridge made for any S&W cartridge revolver.

Its an empty box on an online auction that I am watching.

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Cliff

Cliff,

Found it this morning!! Very Respectable Box with a Nice Label, but I don't believe there's any Original Cartridges included!! Regardless, this Auction should be "Very" interesting!! Especially if a couple Serious S&W Collectors find it!! These Boxes are Rare,Rare,Rare!!! These are near impossible to find & have only seen Three others in comparable condition since I acquired mine "Many" years ago!! I'll be keeping a close eye on this one to see where it goes!! Thanks again for bringing it to our attention!!

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Masterpiece

Shhhhhh...... I'm trying to win it : ) I think it will go for way more than I can afford though. Any predictions ?

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Cliff

Cliff,

They've already found it so I'm not going to make any predictions, but as not to jinx you're chances, all I'm going to say by the activity it's already seeing it ain't going to go cheap!! Good Luck!!

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Masterpiece

Yep, I am out at $100.00. Its already gone a lot higher than I will go for a little, empty, cardboard box : )

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Cliff

Good Lord! Its already at over $500.00! What am I missing??

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Cliff

What you are missing, Hearsedriver, is that too many people have way too much money--a very bad situation for us who have limited funds.

The value of a US dollar is about half what it was less than ten years ago and continues to decline. Did you ever think you would live long enough to see a 5-dollar box of cereal?

$5.8K for the box. Someone's going to have a nice weekend.

I knew when I originally made my comment to Hearsedriver it was going to go high, but I never thought it would sell that high!! Even surprised me!! It very well may have included the Cartridges, but as you're not allowed to "Gift" the contents anymore, as you once were able to on eBay, the Seller made no comments about them in his description!! In fact, he didn't have much to say about it at all!! Sometimes less is better!! Nevertheless, I can't remember ever hearing of one selling that high "Empty"!! I looked over what the Seller generally lists & unless someone told him what it was before he listed it I'm sure he's still in shock!!! Quite Remarkable!!

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Masterpiece

That is insane! $5800.00 for an empty box.... I bet the seller is going nuts.

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Cliff

Hi Cliff,

Told you so!! Not so much insane, but someone needed or wanted one of these for a long,long time!! Winning Bidder made an Automatic Bid 4 seconds before the Auction's End, so he was willing to go even higher if need be because another Bidder tried to steal it at $5700 2 seconds before it ended & lost!!!!

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Masterpiece

I guess but I figured $350.00 tops. Shows how much/little I know. Sure hope I find one of these boxes someday.....to put on Ebay : ) All I could think about was that I know where a nice Registerd Magnum is for $4500.00 and I would much rather have it and money left over than a box. But thats just me.

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Cliff

Cliff,

It seems the Seller of the Early 100 Ct. S&W Ammo Box may very well have known what he had after all!! Reason being, he just listed another Scare 100 Ct. 22 Ammo Box yesterday!! Maybe you'll have better luck with this one!! Highly unlikely it will sell as high as the S&W Box, but still a "Very Hard" to come by Early 22 Ammo Box nevertheless!! These U.M.C. Boxes are rarely seen in this condition either!! Thought you might be interested!!

Good Luck!!

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Masterpiece

Thanks! Yes, I am watching that one too but, not much hope of winning it aftre that last auction. There are some with much deeper pockets than mine!

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Cliff

Cliff,

I'd keep a close eye on it if I were you!! You just may be surprised!! This Box isn't going to bring anywhere near what the S&W Box did, but you might be able to pick it up reasonably if you're seriously looking for a Nice Period Box to compliment one of your Early S&W No.1 Tip-Up's!!

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Masterpiece

Anyone got a idea how old these are & value Box is still factory sealed & unopened![IMG][/IMG]

This is late 1880's-1890's worth $75-100.00. Very cool piece!

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Cliff

I have one of these early Smith & Wesson .22 boxes. If I had seen that auction site, I would have paid alot more than the final price.
I'm not being critical of some of your comments, but you all don't have any idea as to what these boxes are and how rare they really are.
They were made in the 1860's and the survival rate is very low.

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Don Mundell

Hello the forum.
I`m new here and seeking more info on a recently acquired S-1 22 S&W cartridge box. I have been unable to find any recent auction prices on this box other than this old thread form last year. I`m interested in establishing a reasonably accurate value on this one. I have many photos of it and can post them for anyone to make a judgement on it.
I`ll say this to begin with, I have an offer from a prominent collector but I feel from recent research that his offer is way off the mark. I do know that the box is 100% authentic and contains several original cartridges. I was fortunate to find it at a gun show in a junk box and bought it for the dealers asking price.
I`m not at all new at cartridge collecting as well as the 22 box collecting but this one has me on the edge of my chair. I`m very excited. I do want to sell it and will do so after establishing a reasonable estimate of it`s real value. I can say here that the box shows considerable handling, the top label is complete, one end seal is complete with the script signature, the other seal is half there with part of the signature. The lid and bottom are free of corner splits and the bottom label is mostly there. The colors are nice but definitely not bright. The gold lettering has turned the normal dark color but most all of it is readable. And as far as it`s catalog listing, it is the Smith & Wesson S1 box.
Thanks for reading this long post. I apologize for any errors I may have made here on the forum, being that this is my first post here. I just recently found this site and signed up to do some research.
Any help with can be posted here or sent direct to me by email or PM.
Many thanks in advance.
Lester H
Top Photo;

Welcome, Great entry! I would think that this box would be worth
$4500.00-$5500.00. Try to find another one. I've been collecting Smith & Wesson over 30 years and have bought every black S&W box I have seen for sale. My entire collection consists of ONE box. I've seen others in collections and have tried to buy them, but, was turned down. Again, great box.

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Don Mundell

Great time to get into the box repro business!!!

That kind of dough is guaranteed to get some fakes.

I think I'll get some repros made and only charge $500 each for an authentically aged and smelling reproduction.

Might as well do gutta percha too...

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Lost it all in a boat accident

Do you sell used cars?

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Don Mundell

Many thank for the quick response to this question.
I`ll wait on more input from others on this as I want to be fair and armed with good info when I approach the collector that has made offer for it. The way it looks right now, it will probably go to a good auction site or probably offered on this forum. Spread the word that it will be sold.
Here is the entire lot of photos that I have. It`s locked away in a very fire safe environment at the moment.
Lester H

You might want to visit the International Ammunition Association website. The really hardcore ammo collectors all live there.

Superbe , great box.

Daniel

very impressive,would love to have it with my S&W model 1

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

Lester,

Excellent Acquisition & a "Very" Lucky Individual for certain as I'm also right there along with Don (Club Gun Fan) concerning his comments...been collecting S&W's for over 30+ yrs myself having only ever been lucky enough to acquire "One" of these Boxes to add to my collection as well!!

Although unlike the intentions you have for yours...mine's safely locked away in the Case of My Nimschke-Engraved S&W Model No.1 2nd Issue 22 having no intent to pass the Box or the Cased Revolver along anytime soon...If Ever!!

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Masterpiece

Gentlemen,
Thanks for all the positive input and nice comments about this box.
I`m not bragging but I do feel extremely lucky in this rare find.
It is the top piece I have ever come across in my 50+ years of digging in junk boxes for old cartridge boxes or cartridges.
My reasoning for selling it is that I`m quite along in years and my collection of cartridges and cartridge boxes doesn`t live up to the level of this box. I`m very afraid that if I do keep it, it would fall into hands that know nothing about it and possibly be lost for ever. It would be much better off in the hands of someone that appreciates the rarity and will see that it survives for a few more decades or possibly centuries.
They just don`t make any more of these, and that`s a good thing.
Thanks again.
Lester H
BTW, I sold my S&W First Model, Second issue about 4 years ago to a S&W collector in NC. Made him real happy.

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I have made the decision to place this item on a public auction site for a period of 14 days, beginning on Sept 14 late PM. It will carry the top level listing possible on the site. Google S&W # S-1 Cartridge Box and you should find it. Or, if you prefer, email or PM me for the auction site and I`ll direct you there. I don`t think it is allowed for me to post the URL here.
Thanks again.
Lester H

Gentlemen,
This bump up is to let everyone know my intentions to place this box on public auction Sept 14, 2013 late PM for 2 weeks duration.
Refer to my last post addendum for further info.
Thanks for putting up with me here.
Lester H

My thanks to all of you that took the time to help with this important piece of history.
The box sold at auction 10-12-13 to one of the forum members here and will soon be in his safe for future generations to have the opportunity to see or own.

It was a real stroke of luck that I stumbled on this item and knowing enough to seek professional help in evaluating it and seeing that it was preserved for the future.
It was fun as well as a real learning experience for me, even though I have been collecting cartridges and boxes for a little more than 50 years. It has been the highlight of those years.
Thank you all again.
Lester H ( Bill )