hi all, i want a light load for a 1880 no 3,using a 200 grain head,i have 3 loads in mind.

(1) 8 grains 777fffg,wad,fill with inert, lightly compress with head.
(2) 3 grains b/eye,wad,fill with inert,lightly compress with head.
(3) 3 grains b/eye,no wad, no inert,fit head.
any thoughts and suggestions please
cheers rowdy

I would be hesitant to add fillers to Triple 7, since they "forbid" it on their website. I have done it before, but since I found how much hotter Triple 7 is than BP, I stay away for pistols. If you can not use fillers and you must load 15% lighter by volume than BP, how does one get rid of air gaps, especially in their pistol loads?

I have found that fillers do not serve much of a purpose in pistol cases, since I have had no problems with ignition. By using a chronograph, I find that Pufflon filler adds an average of 100 fps to the bullet, so pressures are obviously higher as well.

My favorite light load actually uses Clays powder.

44 Russian - 200 GR. LRNFP - Hodgdon Clays - .430" - 1.245" - 3.2gn. - 747fps - 8,000 CUP

Using a filler with a light smokeless load is not needed and not recommended. Bullseye is fine if you have it, shotshell powders such as Red Dot, Green Dot, and Clays would work as well in the 3.0-3.5 grain range. That's a really light load, but if it pushes the bullet out the muzzle, then use it. If you want something a little smokier, Unique is good.

hi,glowe,thanks for your reply,i read the warning and like you wondered how you could achive light loads without filler.
do you think my no 3is the mest bet?.
hi dwalt,thanks for your reply,do you think my no 3 is the best bet?.
cheers both.rowdy

I haven't visited the Alliant website for awhile, but the current listings on the Alliant website, they only list 5 powders for 44 Russian - Universal, HP-38, Trail Boss, Titegroup and Clays.

Titegroup gives the lowest pressures and velocities of the bunch, at 3.5 grains, 738 fps, and 5,100 CUP. Clays listing is 3.2 grains, 747 fps, and 8,000 CUP. If I were starting out loading this caliber, I would buy a pound of Titegroup, since the pressures are quite low compared to the other Alliant offerings. Anyway, check out the Hodgdon's website for more information.

You have to realize that black powder substitutes were originally designed for muzzle-loading and volume of powder is not an issue. Loading cartridges with this stuff is something they were not originally designed for, so I do not use them in pistol calibers. If I want smoke, I use BP.

hi glowe,thanks for the info ,im off to the alliant site for a read.cheers steve

There are about 20 different propellants in the spectrum between Clays (fastest) to Unique (slowest) pistol/shotgun powders that I would recommend for BP revolver replacement loads. This would include Bullseye, Red Dot, Green Dot, 231,and AA2. 3 to 3.5 grains of any of them will work fine to produce very light loads, but you will have differences in muzzle velocity with identical loads of each. I probably wouldn't go any slower than Unique in this application, as Unique burns more uniformly in heavier loads. On the other hand, at low pressure levels, Unique produces somewhat more smoke than faster propellants, and gives a sort-of Black Powder smokiness, and is therefore popular with the Cowboy Action Shooter clan for use in light .44-40, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, and .45 Colt loads. You will never see fillers recommended for smokeless revolver loads, as the faster propellants ignite and burn fine without it. For example, the most popular and accurate target load for the .38 Special using 148 grain wadcutter bullets is only 2.7 grains of Bullseye, and there is a lot of air left in the powder space behind the bullet. My favorite light load from back in the days I did a lot of CAS was 6 grains of Red Dot, Green Dot, 231, or Bullseye (take your pick) and 240 grain lead SWC bullets in .45 Colt, .44 Special or .44 Magnum cases. They all knocked over the steel plates just fine. Velocities were in the 650-750 fps range. If you are loading shorter cases with less powder space like the .44 Russian, lighter loads would be appropriate to keep the chamber pressures down, and if 3 to 3.5 grains work for you, stop there.

hi dwalt,thanks for the info,i think il try 3 grains of bullseye.
what do you think about a wad on top of the powder or would you leave the wad out.cheers steve

No wadding.

ok thanks steve

well crumb. I wrote a question and two paragraphs and had to resign in and pufff it was gone. Anyways. a friend wanted me to load some .44 240 gr swc for his 29 Classic at 4.2 grains of bullseye with a Rem 2 1/2 primer, in Win cases (once fired). They will not clear the muzzle. Then he said 3.5 grains of Bullseye. I loaded six and found (quite obviously) the same results. I load H-110 to about 1200 fps for my .44 of a different family. But his desires, I don't think can be met. Any suggestions to his request?

It's possible that 3.5 grains of Bullseye behind a 240 grain bullet won't work, as I have never gone that light in any .44 load. But it might work in .44 Russian cases using 200 grain bullets. As I said, my "Standard" .44 and .45 cowboy load was 6 grains of Bullseye (or similar) behind a 240 grain lead bullet, and I have fired more than a few thousand of those, which all worked OK in both revolver and carbine. It's just a situation of loading a few rounds and shooting them, increasing the load little by little until you get the performance reliability you want.

In cowboy action shooting, you want to load only to minimum velocity levels adequate to knock over targets, as CAS is a speed game and you can't waste time in recovering from excessive recoil. In fact, CAS prescribes maximum muzzle velocities.

Sounds good DWalt. I think that is exactly what I will do after chating with him. Maybe Load 5 at 5 and 5 at 6 and see what it turns out for starters and go from there. Thanks again.

Are you loading 44 mag. or 44 special for that model 29?
The Lee loading manual is the only one I have found that lists a load for Bullseye for 240gr. lead 44 magnum. I don't feel comfortable showing that data here.
If you are loading 44 special, my Hornady manual shows 4.0 grains as a starting load and 5.5 as maximum (Bullseye, 240 gr. lead).
If you can find "Modern Reloading" by Richard Lee, you will find the 44 mag. Bullseye data there.
If you move this question to the reloading section of this forum, you will probably get better answers from people more expert than I am.

A lot of the .44 Special loads listed in the loading manuals are for the older non-magnum revolvers, therefore they are light loads. Elmer Keith loaded extremely hot .44 Special loads in the early 1930s, from which resulted the .44 Magnum. In a Model 29you could safely shoot .44 Special loads far beyond 5.5 grains of Bullseye, and in fact when I first started shooting the .44 Magnum (a Ruger Blackhawk flat top) back in the early 1960s, I loaded up to 11 grains of Bullseye behind 240 grain bullets, until I figured out I didn't need to subject my hand to that kind of punishment.

For the .44 Russian and 200 grain bullets, I'd start at 3 grains of Bullseye and work up in 0.5 grain increments until success is achieved.