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S&W Antiques S&W Lever Action Pistols, Tip-Up Revolvers, ALL Top-Break Revolvers, and ALL Single Shots


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Old 10-08-2012, 10:59 AM
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Default Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?

Hi,
Hello friends of the forum! First of all I would like to apologize for errors in spelling I do not know very well English.
I'm Brazilian but love the USA, and major collector and passionate about Smith & Wesson guns.

Well, a few days I saw a gun to buy, Model No. 2 Army tip-up but I was in doubt of whether it is a weapon original S & W.
I know he was reoxidized, and iscrições not correct, nor patent the way it was written or the top of the barrel.
Caliber: .32 Rimfire
Patented APRIL 3 . JULY 5 . 1859´8 DEC 18. 1860. (Same is written in the gun)

But still I am in doubt about the originality, if the gun is original Smith & Wesson. So I will post the pictures here so that more experienced friends can tell me whether yes or not a S & W original but with a service badly done by a gunsmith.
The following photos...

Thanks






























































Last edited by Wellington Dantas; 10-08-2012 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:47 AM
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First things first welcome to the forum.
Great pictures, unfortunately this one is above my head.
The best thing about this forum is there are very knowledgeable people who will be able to tell you every detail of this gun.
Someone should be along shortly who can tell you more.
I believe the recoil shield looks slightly different. Could be mistaken.
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Last edited by VaRecon; 10-08-2012 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:53 AM
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I'm pretty sure what you have is a well made Belgian copy of a No.2.
The barrel marking says S&W Pattern, not S&W Springfield Mass.
There are none of the normal S&W inspectors marks , only Belgian proofs.
Also there should be a serial number on the bottom of the butt and I believe the bottom of the butt should be flat, not contoured.
I'm sure one of the resident experts on this model will be along soon with a more definitive opinion.

(Still a nice looking gun, just not worth what an original in the same condition would be.)
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:18 PM
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nice gun,looks better than most copy smiths,
very curious what you payed for it

Last edited by reinhard; 10-09-2012 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:33 PM
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I'm no expert, but it looks like a Model 2 Old Army.
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reinhard View Post
nice gun,looks better than most replica smiths,
very curious what you payed for it
In Brazil the prices of the guns are very high, and the price of imported weapons is even higher. A S & W Model 686 here costs $ 3000 (Dollars)
This revolver in question and two other Smith & Wesson, I swapped in a German Drilling R-Salbey. I believe it cost me in return US$ 1,500.

Thanks
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:45 PM
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Thank you all, and still waiting for more information about the piece in question.
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:15 PM
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Welcome to the forum.
I'm also waiting to see what you have.
Dr Charlie
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:48 PM
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Wellington, Welcome to the Forum! Excellent photos. Yes, as said above , the gun is a copy of a real S&W Model 2 Army. Do to the obvious quality, I suspect it was made in Germany, and proofed in Belgium at the Liege proof house. The Liege proof stamp is seen on the back of the cylinder. The U stamp with the crown over is a German proof stamp, however many European gun makers also had their gun proofed at Leige, Belgium, as it was the world wide accepted place to prove guns at this time. For a copy, it is one of the best well made specimens I've seen in a long time. Not cheaply made, and has some value to a Model 2 collector just for what it is, plus condition is amazing considering it's close to 140 yrs. old. The various small stamps of numbers are the assembly code stamps and fitters marks. The patent dates on the cylinder are the correct dates as appear on genuine S&W Model 2 cylinders, making this copy a very clever specimen, only the barrel stamping being different than genuine S&Ws. Another clue that it is a copy is the lands and grooves visible at the muzzle. There are 5 each, and S&Ws are not visible there and they have 6 lands & grooves. Ed.

Last edited by opoefc; 10-09-2012 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opoefc View Post
Wellington, Welcome to the Forum! Yes, as said above , the gun is a copy of a real S&W Model 2 Army. Do to the obvious quality, I suspect it was made in Germany, and proofed in Belgium at the Liege proof house. The U stamp with the crown over is a German proof stamp, however many European gun makers also had their gun proofed at Leige, Belgium, as it was the world wide accepted place to prove guns at this time. For a copy, it is one of the best well made specimens I've seen in a long time. Not cheaply made, and has some value to a Model 2 collector just for what it is, plus condition is amazing considering it's close to 140 yrs. old. The various small stamps of numbers are the assembly code stamps and fitters marks. The patent dates on the cylinder are the correct dates as appear on genuine S&W Model 2 cylinders, making this copy a very clever specimen, only the barrel stamping being different than genuine S&Ws. Another clue that it is a copy is the lands and grooves visible at the muzzle. There are 5 each, and S&Ws are not visible there and they have 6 lands & grooves. Ed.
Hello Ed, thanks for the tip, is already a big help what you said about my gun.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:51 AM
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Now that we already know that my gun is rather a copy, would like an opnion friends.
And as I said I am a collector of S & W and all my weapons are original, and my collection begins in the Top-Break´s and you finish in modern models, manufactured today.
Have the older models with the Tip-up´s are rare, I have never seen any in Brazil.
Do you think I should keep this in the collection or should I keep only the original S & W?
Thanks
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:43 AM
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I would keep the gun ,it's a nice copy,I had a mexican copy of a colt once and made the mistake of selling it,
It's always interesting to compare a copy with the original
I am really surprised that guns are that expensive in your country,

Last edited by reinhard; 10-09-2012 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:12 AM
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Boa dia, Wellington. I also would keep it. It is an antique even if S&W didn't make it and likely as valuable as some other S&W revolvers as old. When would you ever expect to see another like it? I don't know the rules for collectors in Brazil, but I would only consider selling it if I was restricted on the number of firearms in my collection and couldn't add another original S&W without having to sell one.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:26 AM
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Wellington, welcome to the forum.

I agree that the gun whose pictures you posted is not an original S&W revolver, but it has its own value as a seemingly well made copy.

For information on the S&W Model No. 2 Army, check out this web site:

Smith and Wesson Model 2 Army Revolver
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reinhard View Post
I would keep the gun ,it's a nice copy,I had a mexican copy of a colt once and made the mistake of selling it,
It's always interesting to compare a copy against the original
I am really surprised that guns are that expensive in your country,
I'll think about the possibility of keeping this gun in my collection.
As for the prices of the guns here are absurd even, very expensive and this is due to rigid law, taxes and other restriction. What does the price of both imported and domestic weapons be expensive
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:04 PM
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Wellington Dantas Wellington Dantas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy View Post
Boa dia, Wellington. I also would keep it. It is an antique even if S&W didn't make it and likely as valuable as some other S&W revolvers as old. When would you ever expect to see another like it? I don't know the rules for collectors in Brazil, but I would only consider selling it if I was restricted on the number of firearms in my collection and couldn't add another original S&W without having to sell one.
It's likely that I stay with him, I believe it is difficult to find a original Tip-Up in Brazil. Brazilian law allows collectors registered with the Army could have any gun you want and the amount you want provided that they are registered and the army is aware of its existence.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCWilson View Post
Wellington, welcome to the forum.

I agree that the gun whose pictures you posted is not an original S&W revolver, but it has its own value as a seemingly well made copy.

For information on the S&W Model No. 2 Army, check out this web site:

Smith and Wesson Model 2 Army Revolver
Hi, DCWilson
Thank you for your help, I will access the site and find out more about this model of Smith & Wesson.
Leveraging the topic despite not being the correct location, how do I become a member of the SWCA?
Thanks
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:40 PM
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Wellington, To become a member of the S&W Collectors Assoc. click on the "Download" at the the toolbar of the Forum, then click on SWCA file download, then click on "SWCA Forms" and download the "New Member App." Print it out, fill it out and send it to Mike Speers, Admin. Assistant, If you wish, I will sponsor your membership, by email to Mike, so please note that on your application. Welcome aboard! Ed Cornett, SWCA # 15. ( Any problems with getting the downloads, send me a PM. )
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