Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Notices

S&W Antiques S&W Lever Action Pistols, Tip-Up Revolvers, Top-Break Revolvers, and ALL Single Shots


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-08-2012, 10:59 AM
Wellington Dantas's Avatar
Wellington Dantas Wellington Dantas is offline
Member
Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Barbacena - MG - Brazil
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 1 Post
Default Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?

Hi,
Hello friends of the forum! First of all I would like to apologize for errors in spelling I do not know very well English.
I'm Brazilian but love the USA, and major collector and passionate about Smith & Wesson guns.

Well, a few days I saw a gun to buy, Model No. 2 Army tip-up but I was in doubt of whether it is a weapon original S & W.
I know he was reoxidized, and iscrições not correct, nor patent the way it was written or the top of the barrel.
Caliber: .32 Rimfire
Patented APRIL 3 . JULY 5 . 1859´8 DEC 18. 1860. (Same is written in the gun)

But still I am in doubt about the originality, if the gun is original Smith & Wesson. So I will post the pictures here so that more experienced friends can tell me whether yes or not a S & W original but with a service badly done by a gunsmith.
The following photos...

Thanks






























































Last edited by Wellington Dantas; 10-08-2012 at 11:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #2  
Old 10-08-2012, 11:47 AM
VaRecon's Avatar
VaRecon VaRecon is offline
Member
Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Elliston, VA
Posts: 649
Likes: 136
Liked 92 Times in 59 Posts
Default

First things first welcome to the forum.
Great pictures, unfortunately this one is above my head.
The best thing about this forum is there are very knowledgeable people who will be able to tell you every detail of this gun.
Someone should be along shortly who can tell you more.
I believe the recoil shield looks slightly different. Could be mistaken.
__________________
27-2, 66-1, 640 Pro, 10-5

Last edited by VaRecon; 10-08-2012 at 11:51 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-08-2012, 11:53 AM
deadin's Avatar
deadin deadin is offline
US Veteran
Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?  
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ocean Shores, WA, USA
Posts: 5,069
Likes: 132
Liked 3,540 Times in 1,286 Posts
Default

I'm pretty sure what you have is a well made Belgian copy of a No.2.
The barrel marking says S&W Pattern, not S&W Springfield Mass.
There are none of the normal S&W inspectors marks , only Belgian proofs.
Also there should be a serial number on the bottom of the butt and I believe the bottom of the butt should be flat, not contoured.
I'm sure one of the resident experts on this model will be along soon with a more definitive opinion.

(Still a nice looking gun, just not worth what an original in the same condition would be.)
__________________
Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-08-2012, 01:18 PM
reinhard's Avatar
reinhard reinhard is offline
Member
Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 119
Likes: 15
Liked 8 Times in 4 Posts
Default

nice gun,looks better than most copy smiths,
very curious what you payed for it

Last edited by reinhard; 10-09-2012 at 10:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-08-2012, 01:33 PM
Wiregrassguy's Avatar
Wiregrassguy Wiregrassguy is offline
SWCA Member
Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ashford, AL
Posts: 4,485
Likes: 18,266
Liked 5,022 Times in 1,822 Posts
Default

I'm no expert, but it looks like a Model 2 Old Army.
__________________
Guy
SWHF #474
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-08-2012, 01:43 PM
Wellington Dantas's Avatar
Wellington Dantas Wellington Dantas is offline
Member
Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Barbacena - MG - Brazil
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 1 Post
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reinhard View Post
nice gun,looks better than most replica smiths,
very curious what you payed for it
In Brazil the prices of the guns are very high, and the price of imported weapons is even higher. A S & W Model 686 here costs $ 3000 (Dollars)
This revolver in question and two other Smith & Wesson, I swapped in a German Drilling R-Salbey. I believe it cost me in return US$ 1,500.

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-08-2012, 01:45 PM
Wellington Dantas's Avatar
Wellington Dantas Wellington Dantas is offline
Member
Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Barbacena - MG - Brazil
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 1 Post
Default

Thank you all, and still waiting for more information about the piece in question.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-08-2012, 02:15 PM
charlies's Avatar
charlies charlies is offline
US Veteran
Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SW \
Posts: 492
Likes: 314
Liked 34 Times in 23 Posts
Default

Welcome to the forum.
I'm also waiting to see what you have.
Dr Charlie
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-08-2012, 03:48 PM
opoefc opoefc is offline
US Veteran
Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 9,452
Likes: 2,261
Liked 4,593 Times in 2,041 Posts
Default

Wellington, Welcome to the Forum! Excellent photos. Yes, as said above , the gun is a copy of a real S&W Model 2 Army. Do to the obvious quality, I suspect it was made in Germany, and proofed in Belgium at the Liege proof house. The Liege proof stamp is seen on the back of the cylinder. The U stamp with the crown over is a German proof stamp, however many European gun makers also had their gun proofed at Leige, Belgium, as it was the world wide accepted place to prove guns at this time. For a copy, it is one of the best well made specimens I've seen in a long time. Not cheaply made, and has some value to a Model 2 collector just for what it is, plus condition is amazing considering it's close to 140 yrs. old. The various small stamps of numbers are the assembly code stamps and fitters marks. The patent dates on the cylinder are the correct dates as appear on genuine S&W Model 2 cylinders, making this copy a very clever specimen, only the barrel stamping being different than genuine S&Ws. Another clue that it is a copy is the lands and grooves visible at the muzzle. There are 5 each, and S&Ws are not visible there and they have 6 lands & grooves. Ed.

Last edited by opoefc; 10-09-2012 at 01:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 10-09-2012, 09:33 AM
Wellington Dantas's Avatar
Wellington Dantas Wellington Dantas is offline
Member
Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Barbacena - MG - Brazil
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 1 Post
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by opoefc View Post
Wellington, Welcome to the Forum! Yes, as said above , the gun is a copy of a real S&W Model 2 Army. Do to the obvious quality, I suspect it was made in Germany, and proofed in Belgium at the Liege proof house. The U stamp with the crown over is a German proof stamp, however many European gun makers also had their gun proofed at Leige, Belgium, as it was the world wide accepted place to prove guns at this time. For a copy, it is one of the best well made specimens I've seen in a long time. Not cheaply made, and has some value to a Model 2 collector just for what it is, plus condition is amazing considering it's close to 140 yrs. old. The various small stamps of numbers are the assembly code stamps and fitters marks. The patent dates on the cylinder are the correct dates as appear on genuine S&W Model 2 cylinders, making this copy a very clever specimen, only the barrel stamping being different than genuine S&Ws. Another clue that it is a copy is the lands and grooves visible at the muzzle. There are 5 each, and S&Ws are not visible there and they have 6 lands & grooves. Ed.
Hello Ed, thanks for the tip, is already a big help what you said about my gun.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-09-2012, 09:51 AM
Wellington Dantas's Avatar
Wellington Dantas Wellington Dantas is offline
Member
Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Barbacena - MG - Brazil
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 1 Post
Default

Now that we already know that my gun is rather a copy, would like an opnion friends.
And as I said I am a collector of S & W and all my weapons are original, and my collection begins in the Top-Break´s and you finish in modern models, manufactured today.
Have the older models with the Tip-up´s are rare, I have never seen any in Brazil.
Do you think I should keep this in the collection or should I keep only the original S & W?
Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-09-2012, 10:43 AM
reinhard's Avatar
reinhard reinhard is offline
Member
Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 119
Likes: 15
Liked 8 Times in 4 Posts
Default

I would keep the gun ,it's a nice copy,I had a mexican copy of a colt once and made the mistake of selling it,
It's always interesting to compare a copy with the original
I am really surprised that guns are that expensive in your country,

Last edited by reinhard; 10-09-2012 at 03:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-09-2012, 11:12 AM
Wiregrassguy's Avatar
Wiregrassguy Wiregrassguy is offline
SWCA Member
Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ashford, AL
Posts: 4,485
Likes: 18,266
Liked 5,022 Times in 1,822 Posts
Default

Boa dia, Wellington. I also would keep it. It is an antique even if S&W didn't make it and likely as valuable as some other S&W revolvers as old. When would you ever expect to see another like it? I don't know the rules for collectors in Brazil, but I would only consider selling it if I was restricted on the number of firearms in my collection and couldn't add another original S&W without having to sell one.
__________________
Guy
SWHF #474
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #14  
Old 10-09-2012, 11:26 AM
DCWilson's Avatar
DCWilson DCWilson is offline
SWCA Member
Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?  
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 13,599
Likes: 4,259
Liked 6,567 Times in 2,306 Posts
Default

Wellington, welcome to the forum.

I agree that the gun whose pictures you posted is not an original S&W revolver, but it has its own value as a seemingly well made copy.

For information on the S&W Model No. 2 Army, check out this web site:

Smith and Wesson Model 2 Army Revolver
__________________
David Wilson
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-09-2012, 12:42 PM
Wellington Dantas's Avatar
Wellington Dantas Wellington Dantas is offline
Member
Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Barbacena - MG - Brazil
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 1 Post
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reinhard View Post
I would keep the gun ,it's a nice copy,I had a mexican copy of a colt once and made the mistake of selling it,
It's always interesting to compare a copy against the original
I am really surprised that guns are that expensive in your country,
I'll think about the possibility of keeping this gun in my collection.
As for the prices of the guns here are absurd even, very expensive and this is due to rigid law, taxes and other restriction. What does the price of both imported and domestic weapons be expensive
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-09-2012, 01:04 PM
Wellington Dantas's Avatar
Wellington Dantas Wellington Dantas is offline
Member
Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Barbacena - MG - Brazil
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 1 Post
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy View Post
Boa dia, Wellington. I also would keep it. It is an antique even if S&W didn't make it and likely as valuable as some other S&W revolvers as old. When would you ever expect to see another like it? I don't know the rules for collectors in Brazil, but I would only consider selling it if I was restricted on the number of firearms in my collection and couldn't add another original S&W without having to sell one.
It's likely that I stay with him, I believe it is difficult to find a original Tip-Up in Brazil. Brazilian law allows collectors registered with the Army could have any gun you want and the amount you want provided that they are registered and the army is aware of its existence.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-09-2012, 01:14 PM
Wellington Dantas's Avatar
Wellington Dantas Wellington Dantas is offline
Member
Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Barbacena - MG - Brazil
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 1 Post
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCWilson View Post
Wellington, welcome to the forum.

I agree that the gun whose pictures you posted is not an original S&W revolver, but it has its own value as a seemingly well made copy.

For information on the S&W Model No. 2 Army, check out this web site:

Smith and Wesson Model 2 Army Revolver
Hi, DCWilson
Thank you for your help, I will access the site and find out more about this model of Smith & Wesson.
Leveraging the topic despite not being the correct location, how do I become a member of the SWCA?
Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-09-2012, 01:40 PM
opoefc opoefc is offline
US Veteran
Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson? Tip-Up Army, Original Smith & Wesson?  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 9,452
Likes: 2,261
Liked 4,593 Times in 2,041 Posts
Default

Wellington, To become a member of the S&W Collectors Assoc. click on the "Download" at the the toolbar of the Forum, then click on SWCA file download, then click on "SWCA Forms" and download the "New Member App." Print it out, fill it out and send it to Mike Speers, Admin. Assistant, If you wish, I will sponsor your membership, by email to Mike, so please note that on your application. Welcome aboard! Ed Cornett, SWCA # 15. ( Any problems with getting the downloads, send me a PM. )
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
smith & wesson #2 army revolver? gjamison S&W Antiques 5 11-27-2014 05:21 PM
Smith and Wesson Pre-29 original box eastwoodfan101 Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 1 07-21-2014 08:25 PM
Smith & Wesson 1917 .45 Army revolver trwdrk WANTED to Buy 0 05-08-2014 09:44 AM
Smith and Wesson old army #2-type4 tmilliron S&W Antiques 8 08-02-2011 11:15 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:23 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2020
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)