Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-10-2014, 01:15 PM
jleiper's Avatar
jleiper jleiper is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 271
Likes: 44
Liked 347 Times in 122 Posts
Default Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3

Here are some first pictures of a Belgian copy of the 3rd Model No.3. These are known with several different markings and in at least 2 different calibers. This particular revolver is Cyrillic marked (incorrectly) and in .44 Russian - the chambers of the cylinder are tapered, not stepped! Other examples have been observed in 44 Henry Rim fire with English language barrel markings (RUSSIAN MODEL SMITH & WESSON NEW-YORK), and a rimfire with Turkish markings.
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3-dscn3500as-jpgBelgian copy of the Russian No. 3-dscn3511as-jpg
Side views of the Belgian copy
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3-dscn3502atext-copy-jpg
Barrel stamping - it has someone's name in it

Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3-dscn3507as-jpg
Copy Acceptance Eagle - note: no inspector's initials

Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3-dscn3208a-jpg
with a real 3rd model - this is a BIG revolver.

Joe

Last edited by jleiper; 09-10-2014 at 02:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #2  
Old 09-10-2014, 02:40 PM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Harlem, Ohio
Posts: 4,539
Likes: 2,988
Liked 4,102 Times in 1,832 Posts
Default

About 10 years ago I saw a Belgian copy of a #3 at a "Antique Mall". It was Nickel in good appearance, but the cylinder wouldn't lock up when the hammer was cocked. The markings were in mis-spelled English and had "Bumble Bee" proofs. The price was marked $400. I passed quickly! I did buy a pair of the modern Umberti copies for about $400 each a year and a half later. I love shooting them with Trail Boss low pressure loads, the 25 yard accuracy is 5 shots in about 1" to 1.5" and would be better with modern sights.

I didn't know that Turkey maid copies, But their contract guns matched the THOUSANDS of Henry rifles they bought. They used them to great effect against Czarist Russia along with Remington Rolling Block rifles, In a 2 day battle they exterminated almost 100,000 Russian troops with few losses of their own. The Czar shot the loosing general personally! Ivan
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-10-2014, 02:53 PM
jleiper's Avatar
jleiper jleiper is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 271
Likes: 44
Liked 347 Times in 122 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher View Post
About 10 years ago I saw a Belgian copy of a #3 at a "Antique Mall". It was Nickel in good appearance, but the cylinder wouldn't lock up when the hammer was cocked. The markings were in mis-spelled English and had "Bumble Bee" proofs. The price was marked $400. I passed quickly! I did buy a pair of the modern Umberti copies for about $400 each a year and a half later. I love shooting them with Trail Boss low pressure loads, the 25 yard accuracy is 5 shots in about 1" to 1.5" and would be better with modern sights.

I didn't know that Turkey maid copies, But their contract guns matched the THOUSANDS of Henry rifles they bought. They used them to great effect against Czarist Russia along with Remington Rolling Block rifles, In a 2 day battle they exterminated almost 100,000 Russian troops with few losses of their own. The Czar shot the loosing general personally! Ivan
I suggest you check your history.
The third battle of Plevna was expensive to the Russians but they did not lose 100,000 men and no general was shot.
Plevna is most interesting because it is the only major battle where a lever action weapon made a significant difference in the battle.
Joe

Last edited by jleiper; 09-10-2014 at 02:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-10-2014, 02:58 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas
Posts: 18,749
Likes: 2
Liked 9,522 Times in 5,493 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jleiper View Post
I suggest you check your history.
The third battle of Plevna was expensive to the Russians but they did not lose 100,000 men and no general was shot.
It is most interesting because it is the only major battle where a lever action weapon made a significant difference in the battle.
Joe
You beat me to it. Might be best to review what actually happened at Plevna (there were actually four battles). Incidentally, the Russians eventually won, but the Turks generally had better weapons, both artillery and rifles (and not just the Winchesters). And the Russians had more troops.

Last edited by DWalt; 09-10-2014 at 02:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-10-2014, 11:55 PM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Harlem, Ohio
Posts: 4,539
Likes: 2,988
Liked 4,102 Times in 1,832 Posts
Default

Thanks for the correction. That's what I get for listening to High School history teachers instead of doing my own research. Ivan
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-11-2014, 12:45 AM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas
Posts: 18,749
Likes: 2
Liked 9,522 Times in 5,493 Posts
Default

"It is most interesting because it is the only major battle where a lever action weapon made a significant difference in the battle."

There were a number of actions during the Civil War where the use of the Spencer played a pivotal role in Union victory, such as at Tullahoma, Gettysburg, and Chicamauga. Depends on whether you consider the Spencer as being a lever action.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-11-2014, 12:59 PM
opoefc opoefc is offline
US Veteran
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 8,401
Likes: 1,418
Liked 2,619 Times in 1,361 Posts
Default

Joe, Interesting Belgian copy with those markings. As you know, you can fill a room with copies of S&W big frame top breaks made in Europe, the Middle East, Asia and South America. and they would almost be as interesting for forensic analysis as S&Ws! Have you determined the cartridge for this revolver? perhaps the .11 mm Gasser or the 11.75 mm Montenegrin ? Ed.

Last edited by opoefc; 09-11-2014 at 01:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #8  
Old 09-11-2014, 02:12 PM
jleiper's Avatar
jleiper jleiper is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 271
Likes: 44
Liked 347 Times in 122 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by opoefc View Post
Joe, Interesting Belgian copy with those markings. As you know, you can fill a room with copies of S&W big frame top breaks made in Europe, the Middle East, Asia and South America. and they would almost be as interesting for forensic analysis as S&Ws! Have you determined the cartridge for this revolver? perhaps the .11 mm Gasser or the 11.75 mm Montenegrin ? Ed.
I agree that there are all kinds of these around. This maker, whoever it was, made lot of different calibers and models. The unusual trigger guard is how this maker seems to be identified, it isn't flush to the frame like an original.
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3-dscn3522as-jpg
This one is in 44 Russian with a tapered, not stepped chamber.

I have seen these with Belgian/Liege proofs but this one has an odd proof I don't recognize. It is on both the barrel and cylinder face.Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3-dscn3501b-jpgBelgian copy of the Russian No. 3-dscn3503a-jpg
The other mark on the cylinder face could be an attempt to make the Cyrillic letter ‘П’ which was a Russian acceptance mark.
Joe

Last edited by jleiper; 09-11-2014 at 02:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-11-2014, 04:21 PM
lechat lechat is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 48
Likes: 2
Liked 73 Times in 16 Posts
Default

I had one in the past, belgium proofed, in 44 rim fire too.

I was coming back from Syria in the 70's.

Certainly a private purchase for dignitary in the Otoman Empire (engraved and with horn grips)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-11-2014, 04:34 PM
opoefc opoefc is offline
US Veteran
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 8,401
Likes: 1,418
Liked 2,619 Times in 1,361 Posts
Default

Joe, I have an extensive file on foreign proof marks which I researched to see if I could identify that barrel proof make. Nada, zilch and nothing. I suspect it means nothing and was applied by the maker to fool a prospective owner. It has a very vague resemblance to the English proof of the late 1800s, so an uniformed buyer might think it was just a poor stamping of the English proof. …..44 Russian with a tapered, not stepped chamber ? .44 Russian is a straight case. How much taper is there? Ed.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-11-2014, 04:55 PM
jleiper's Avatar
jleiper jleiper is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 271
Likes: 44
Liked 347 Times in 122 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by opoefc View Post
Joe, I have an extensive file on foreign proof marks which I researched to see if I could identify that barrel proof make. Nada, zilch and nothing. I suspect it means nothing and was applied by the maker to fool a prospective owner. It has a very vague resemblance to the English proof of the late 1800s, so an uniformed buyer might think it was just a poor stamping of the English proof. …..44 Russian with a tapered, not stepped chamber ? .44 Russian is a straight case. How much taper is there? Ed.
I couldn't find the mark in my proof references either and figured the same thing you did - a mark to make it look like it was proofed.
It takes a 44 Russian case perfectly but there is no step in the chambers. However, the a bullet is a press in the front of the chamber from the front face. The taper appears to be only at the front of the chamber. I will measure it and get proper numbers to confirm.
Other interesting features: hammer operated stop, no sideplate, etc.
Joe

Last edited by jleiper; 09-11-2014 at 04:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-11-2014, 05:42 PM
jleiper's Avatar
jleiper jleiper is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 271
Likes: 44
Liked 347 Times in 122 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lechat View Post
I had one in the past, belgium proofed, in 44 rim fire too.

I was coming back from Syria in the 70's.

Certainly a private purchase for dignitary in the Otoman Empire (engraved and with horn grips)
There are numerous examples known from the Middle East. Zhuk's Pistol and Revolver book shows an engraved example in 44 Henry rimfire with Turkish writing on the barrel rib.
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3-dscn3225as-jpg
Fig. 17-1 from Pistols and Revolvers by Zhuk.

Another interesting example:
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3-inlayed-copy-jpg
Pretty and slightly different configuration mechanically.
Joe
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-11-2014, 07:43 PM
opoefc opoefc is offline
US Veteran
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 8,401
Likes: 1,418
Liked 2,619 Times in 1,361 Posts
Default

Joe, No side plate? That smells like middle east, Persia to India to Pakistan, etc , to me. Typical of cottage industry firearms from there. They are fun guns to reverse engineer forensically. Sounds like some early firearms designer found out that a taper in the cylinder works as a Pre-Forcing cone to help stabilize home made bullets. Ed.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-11-2014, 08:00 PM
jleiper's Avatar
jleiper jleiper is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 271
Likes: 44
Liked 347 Times in 122 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by opoefc View Post
Joe, No side plate? That smells like middle east, Persia to India to Pakistan, etc , to me. Typical of cottage industry firearms from there. They are fun guns to reverse engineer forensically. Sounds like some early firearms designer found out that a taper in the cylinder works as a Pre-Forcing cone to help stabilize home made bullets. Ed.
Don't think so. Too well made and the parts are identical to guns with sideplates and Belgian/Liege proofs. Belgian manufacture for the Officer's stores in St. Petersburg and Moscow in the 1880s.
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3-sw_ad-jpg


Yet another example
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3-egl_img_0285-jpgBelgian copy of the Russian No. 3-egl_img_0286-jpg
Cyrillic marked, caliber unknown
Joe
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-12-2014, 02:24 AM
opoefc opoefc is offline
US Veteran
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 8,401
Likes: 1,418
Liked 2,619 Times in 1,361 Posts
Default

That's true, quality construction is not seen in those middle eastern guns. You say the barrel marking is " Cyrllic (incorrect )". Do you mean it is just jibberish and won't translate in Russian? If so, then it was not intended to be sold in the officer's stores in Russia, but in some country that a buyer would not be expected to read Russian, we can assume. Ed.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-12-2014, 09:41 AM
Sid V. Sid V. is offline
SWCA Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South East Michigan
Posts: 52
Likes: 1
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Default

I've owned one of these revolvers,mine was marked .44 Winchester caliber on barrel,had tapered cylinder bores,it fired .44-40's.It was stamped on grip frame (Pieper).
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-12-2014, 10:11 AM
jleiper's Avatar
jleiper jleiper is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 271
Likes: 44
Liked 347 Times in 122 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by opoefc View Post
That's true, quality construction is not seen in those middle eastern guns. You say the barrel marking is " Cyrllic (incorrect )". Do you mean it is just jibberish and won't translate in Russian? If so, then it was not intended to be sold in the officer's stores in Russia, but in some country that a buyer would not be expected to read Russian, we can assume. Ed.
The Russian is more or less correct, but one letter has been left out in the word "Weapons" and a name added in - A. Simonis.
Here are pictures of the copy and a real Smith
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3-dscn3502atext-copy-jpgBelgian copy of the Russian No. 3-2_26300e-copy-jpg
The copy and a Smith

Line address on the Copy -
System Smith and Wesson Weapons Factory A. Simonis Springfield America
Система Смита и Вессона Оружейна(я) Фабрика А. Симонисъ Спрингфиелдъ Америка

The fit and finish on the revolver is very nice, not Khyber Pass quality, and it doesn't mean much, but it has a serial number of 2413.

Joe

Last edited by jleiper; 09-12-2014 at 10:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-12-2014, 11:06 AM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas
Posts: 18,749
Likes: 2
Liked 9,522 Times in 5,493 Posts
Default

SIMONIS Albert, manufacturer of weapons in Liege (Belgium), street Trappé 19-20 (ca. 1870s-1890s). He held quite a few gun patents. The Cyrilic legend translates to essentially the same as the English stamping.

Last edited by DWalt; 09-12-2014 at 11:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-12-2014, 11:53 AM
jleiper's Avatar
jleiper jleiper is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 271
Likes: 44
Liked 347 Times in 122 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
SIMONIS Albert, manufacturer of weapons in Liege (Belgium), street Trappé 19-20 (ca. 1870s-1890s). He held quite a few gun patents. The Cyrilic legend translates to essentially the same as the English stamping.
Thanks! I hadn't gotten around to chasing down the name yet. That confirms that it is Liege manufactured.

I have had this revolver for quite a few years, but have only started working on the "Spanish and Belgian Copies of the No. 3" section of my "Russian Revolvers" book a few weeks ago.
If anyone else has a Spanish or Belgian copy revolver or pictures I would love to see them.
Joe

Last edited by jleiper; 09-12-2014 at 12:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-12-2014, 12:27 PM
jleiper's Avatar
jleiper jleiper is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 271
Likes: 44
Liked 347 Times in 122 Posts
Default

Checking out "Club Littlegun" the Belgian web site it becomes much clearer. The stamp on the frame and cylinder face is crossed rifles and a Simonis trademark.

Club Littlegun:Nouvelle page 0

Joe
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-12-2014, 05:22 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas
Posts: 18,749
Likes: 2
Liked 9,522 Times in 5,493 Posts
Default

Оружейна Фабрика translates as essentially "Armory" or "Weapons Factory." So the complete Cyrillic stamping can be interpreted as "System Smith and Wesson Armory (or Weapons Factory) A. Simonis Springfield America." Seems to me to be a deliberate attempt to mislead that it is a genuine S&W.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-12-2014, 06:14 PM
jleiper's Avatar
jleiper jleiper is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 271
Likes: 44
Liked 347 Times in 122 Posts
Default

The problem is the word Оружейна is a short form adjective that would not be used this way. That is why I said the Russian is incorrect. It should be Оружейная.

The correct line address on a S&W manufactured revolver is:
Смита и Вессона оружейная фабрика Г. Спрингфильдъ Америка

Which translates to:
“Smith and Wesson weapons factory C(ity) Springfield America”

The acceptance eagle on the copy is also incorrect having no inspector's initials (or acceptance commission mark).

Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3-4-9456eagles-jpg
Correct Acceptance eagle with K Ordinetz initials.
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3-dscn3507as-jpg
Copy Acceptance Eagle with no initials (and an extra drumstick!)

As I said before, these copies were sold by literally thousands through the Officer's supply stores. The Officer's were not required to carry a given weapon, but just a sidearm (a revolver in this period). Later, I will post another copy of a S&W Double Action 44 carried by a Russian Officer.
Joe
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-18-2014, 11:51 AM
Suntzu04 Suntzu04 is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 10
Likes: 11
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Wow, these revolvers are very neat, how do you guys come across these. And I must say, I love S&W revolvers (top breaks especially), but I love the stories and research that goes on in the back ground, very neat (maybe I am just a super nerd, gun nerd at least). Thank you all for the posts, I learned a lot.
Joe
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #24  
Old 05-04-2017, 05:22 PM
oldswru oldswru is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Hepl with identification

Hello. I have a question on the origin of the weapon. See photo. It looks like a model produced for Russia. I translate the words in Cyrillic? The serial number is about to barrel and grip - 19,278th Furthermore, the handle about the number 1874 - the year of manufacture it? I got the gun from my grandfather. Thank you for the information. Excuse me for my English - google translate 🙂
Attached Thumbnails
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3-14042017020-jpg   Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3-14042017025-jpg   Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3-14042017027-jpg   Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3-14042017028-jpg   Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3-14042017030-jpg  

Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-04-2017, 06:29 PM
jleiper's Avatar
jleiper jleiper is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 271
Likes: 44
Liked 347 Times in 122 Posts
Default

What you have is a 3rd Model Russian Contract revolver made at Smith & Wesson for the Russian Government.
Could you please show the mark a bit farther back on the top of the barrel. It should be an eagle over KO or HK. The serial number is very high for one of these, but not out of range.
Joe
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-07-2017, 07:02 PM
oldswru oldswru is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Thank you for helping to find the origin of this weapon. I'm sending another photo. I'm mainly interested in the approximate production date. The revolver is single-acting. In the Czech Republic, we can hold the weapons manufactured until 1890 without restrictions. Weapons manufactured after 1890 must be registered and can be owned after obtaining a firearms license. I think the 95% weapon was made until 1890 but I want to be sure. Thank you very much again.
Attached Thumbnails
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3-img_20170506_110716-jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-07-2017, 07:18 PM
jleiper's Avatar
jleiper jleiper is offline
Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 271
Likes: 44
Liked 347 Times in 122 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldswru View Post
Thank you for helping to find the origin of this weapon. I'm sending another photo. I'm mainly interested in the approximate production date. The revolver is single-acting. In the Czech Republic, we can hold the weapons manufactured until 1890 without restrictions. Weapons manufactured after 1890 must be registered and can be owned after obtaining a firearms license. I think the 95% weapon was made until 1890 but I want to be sure. Thank you very much again.
The last delivery of these to Russia from Smith & Wesson was in 1878. This revolver was probably delivered in either 1876 or 1877. The HK mark was for N. Kuchekevich who started inspecting in late 1875 making this revolver part of the last 3rd Model contracts delivered.
Joe
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-07-2017, 08:16 PM
JSR III's Avatar
JSR III JSR III is offline
SWCA Member
Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3 Belgian copy of the Russian No. 3  
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Massachusetts USA
Posts: 6,829
Likes: 2,201
Liked 4,811 Times in 1,991 Posts
Default

Thanks for sharing everybody, not sure I will remember all of this but it was interesting reading the posts.
__________________
James Redfield
LM #497
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Model 3 Russian (Belgian copy - H. Pieper) Talarid S&W Antiques 4 03-19-2017 03:40 PM
ISO Information on Belgian copy of DA Frontier odentheviking S&W Antiques 7 01-29-2016 06:11 PM
1881 Frontier Belgian Copy Hank Jr S&W Antiques 2 10-20-2013 12:49 PM
Did I buy a Russian or a COPY ? corporalgungee S&W Antiques 19 10-24-2012 07:11 PM
belgian S&W copy found Mr.JD S&W Antiques 11 09-28-2007 03:07 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:21 PM.


© S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)