Did they make them with nickel plated trigger guards and latches?

RIA sold this as condition excellent which would indicate that it's original.

What is the lot number on this from the past wknd? Mike 2796

Your correct. All I saw was blue trigger guard on all models of double action 38. Good catch.

Number 3179

That Double Action, First Model, most likely in 44 Russian, would have had a blued trigger guard and latch from those I have seen that were reported to be original. That picture sure looks nice and every corner is sharp as a factory gun, so I can not state for certain that some may have had more parts nickel.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Things are not as the majority of Smiths would indicate. The trigger guard and latch are normally blue; however this "could" be a special order and only a letter will tell. Without other pictures or holding it in my hands, I'll admit it looks 'factory' but..

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Mike Maher #283

Don't know, but it sure is gorgeous.

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What would Jim Cirillo do?

As noted, the nickeled latch and trigger guard would indicate probable aftermarket plating.

I agree, but in most cases they would include the trigger when re-nickeling. The side plate looks like it should as well.

Is that latch nickeled too ? Trigger guard in nickel alone would lead me to believe refinished, latch would throw the decision to a certainty. If no date or typical S&W stamps under the grips for the refinish it was likely done by another shop, as nice as it looks. Most refinished on the old stuff looks horrible but there are some refinishes (other than S&W) that look as good as factory refinish. Run your fingernail lightly across the side plate seam. If you can "feel" the seam or your nail even lightly snags, also means somebody's been in there. Very few refinishers can get the side plate correctly seated after wards. If it was advertised as original finish ... it's not, so send it back and get your money back.

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Didn't say anywhere that it was refinished, but it had "Excellent" in the title which i assume is a reference to NRAs grading which says that it's got to be with original finish.

It is in your best interest to avoid hanging your hat on anything RIA has to say about condition----except where they say their condition statements are opinions. It is also in your best interest to understand their guarantee (if you want to call it that) is to properly describe the item. That phrase, "properly describe the item" means they guarantee to label the gun accurately. So if you buy what they said was a S&W .44 DA, and it turns out to be a Colt SAA-----not to worry. They'll void the transaction. Otherwise, I believe the applicable instruction is "caveat emptor". BELIEVE IT!!

Ralph Tremaine

To be complete, this advice does not apply to significant, high dollar items. I am not aware of any meaningful discrepancies in their condition descriptions applicable to high five and six figure items. I reckon they do not wish to alienate the high rollers. I also reckon they could care less about the others. There are, after all, lots of fish in the ocean.

Yeah, I'm starting to think that they don't take grading very seriously. They dont even mention the bore in many of their listings.

A couple of years ago I bought a Colt Diamondback (sorry about that) nickel finish from RIA. When I received the factory letter about 3 months after the auction, it showed the gun as blue, which is worth a lot less than the nickel. When I contacted RIA they told me that since more than a month had passed since the action that I could not return the gun for a full refund. They did send me a check for 15% which I assume was their commission, but that was a lot less than the difference in the value of nickel vs. blue.

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Petter
S&WCA 1759

Here is what RIAC did not show in their listing.










"Brown Patina"





Sent them an email 2 weeks ago, but no reply.

The good book suggests thou shouldn't hold thy breath waiting for a reply! RIA's job is to move merchandise out the door---a task they accomplish very well----and a task for which they are well compensated.

The good book also suggests thou do the math. That goes like this (on this gun): The commission paid by the seller is 17% (for antiques---20% for "modern"----unless thou art a favored seller---then thou geteths a break). You---the buyer pays 12% (??---maybe 15) as a "buyer's premium". Okay---let's see now, 2+2 is 4, and-------my-my----they get 30% (+/-)----with no investment in inventory! Hmmmm? I think that comes under the heading of "Not too shabby!!"----all things considered.

So what's the bottom line? The bottom line is: If'n you gots somethin' to sell, I can't think a better place to send your stuff (unless you don't mind doing it yourself). If'n you wants to buy something-----WATCH OUT!!!!

Ralph Tremaine

Actually, I CAN think of a better place to send your stuff to be sold. I send my stuff to David Carroll!! And if/when you buys stuff from David, you DON'T gots to watch out!!

Without jumping into RIA's business tactics and not knowing the final cost, I am still under the impression that the finish could be factory even if it is not the norm. I just don't see the polishing marks of a re-nickel. Assuming that you keep it, I would letter the piece and send along the photographs.

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Mike Maher #283

Sounds reasonable----sort of, but take a look at the "frame horns" or "latch posts" or whatever they're called-------the two frame elements visible right behind the rear sight. Now I don't much care for nickel guns, so I don't have any---and so I don't know what I'm talking about. BUT, those two "posts" are left in the white (by the factory) on blued guns----as is the muzzle (is it not?). It at least stands to reason those posts are left in the white on nickel guns too-----and these here ones ain't!!!

And so-------------------------------????

Ralph Tremaine

I have strong suspicion that it was originally blued.

Askeladden,

The pictures you post show what this firearm really is like! This ought to be a lesson to many of you (however, I wish not to sound condescending!), in that you really need to have a firearm in your hands before bidding. Pictures can lie, often intentionally. I would never purchase a high-dollar firearm without having had it in my hands first. Plus, if you go to a more local auction, you often are just bidding against anyone at that auction (and it really SOURS me if internet bidding is allowed). On-line and at high dollar auction houses--you are bidding against the whole world, or, at least any idiot with access to a computer. If it seems too good to b true, it often is! Caveat emptor!

Well, when a reputable auction company grades a firearm i expect them to take it seriously. Amoskeag and Jamesdjulia doesn't seem to have any problems with it.

It's not that i had high expectations, or that something "seemed to good to be true" because that was not the case, i did not expect gold, i just did not expect a firearm several grades lower in a different price class.

All things considered i will probably continue to purchase from Rock Island, but i will be ultra critical before doing so.

Another thing i don't get is why they suddenly started skimping on grading, they used to take it more seriously in the past if you browse older auctions. As it is today they wont even bother to mention the bore condition of a gun, which is one of the main selling points of any antique firearm.

Let me suggest they did not suddenly start skimping on grading. My "unfortunate" experiences with them started in the 1990's. Those were things you could fuss about---if you were a fusser. Then the downhill slide started with a vengeance! Then they got worse!! My all time worst experience was maybe 5-6 years ago. I've ignored them ever since.

Some might think I'm a slow learner. Others might think "Hope springs eternal!". And still others might think "If it hurts when you do that, don't do that!!". I have arrived in the latter camp.

Making little errors of omission or commission is one thing. Flat out lying is quite another!! And being flat out blase about it is off the charts!!

Ralph Tremaine

And let's talk about being "ultra critical" for a bit. Here's what that means to me: Call and ask questions. Call again and ask the same questions. Call again and ask the same questions. (It was my good fortune in my last dealing with them to speak to what I believed were three different people.) Call again and make an appointment for a viewing. Get in your little car and drive 750 miles (one way) to conduct your viewing. Conduct your viewing-----mine took less than a minute----substantially less than a minute! They (everyone I had spoken with) had lied through their teeth!! Get back in your little car, and hit the road----again! And being super ultra critical means don't do that again----if you have the sense God gave a peanut!!

It's a bit hard to get in my car since i dont own a car and because i live in Norway he-he, but yeah i get your point.

I don't feel that they are lying, more that they are sloppy.