I've always been fascinated with top break/break action firearms. Probably started when my break action 410 shotgun, O/U and H&R 999 Sportsman.

While I'm looking for a Webley to add to the collection, it is only natural for the S&W top breaks to catch my attention, but need some advise on recommendations on where to start?

I'm not looking for collector grades per se but something to admire and take to the range and shoot. Prefer a caliber that still has production ammo available for it and a traditional DA with exposed hammer, as opposed to the Safety models.

Digging through the SCSW to come up to speed and reviewing the auction sites to see what is available and current pricing.

Doubt I'm ready to jump on a Schofield or No 3 Russian any time soon, but see some nice looking 4th and 5th Models that can be had from $200 to $500.

Any advice for someone just starting out would be appreciated.

Mike

Your best choice for a top break S&W to shoot would probably be a .38 DA Perfected model. It was the last S&W top break design, and has the most modern and rugged lock work. While .38 S&W ammunition is not available in every corner store, it is still produced by a number of companies, and can be found at both retail and by mail.

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Tom
1560

Tom,

Thanks. Actually have my eye on a couple .38 S&W top breaks, but not sure if they are the perfected model. One is listed as a 3rd Model, Ser Nr 165834



and another doesn't specify what number model it is, but states SN 15004XX.



Obviously the second one is not in as good a condition as the first but the price reflects it ($779 starting price vs $235 buy it now).

Need to compare them to the catalog and also see pictures of the DA Perfected model.

Appreciate the advise.

Mike

The large frame SAs and DAs are great to shoot and 44 Russian ammo is readily available thanks to the Cowboys out there making old west calibers popular again, but prices are now very high and parts are virtually non-existent. If I were looking for my first shooter grade top break, I would look at 38 S&W caliber as my choice. That means that you can look at 38 S&W Safety (hammerless), 38 S&W Double Action, 38 S&W Perfected, and 38 S&W Single Action.

All will handle standard 38 S&W rounds manufactured today without any concerns. The bottom line might be a price decision. 38 DAs are cheapest, 38 Safeties are next. then Perfected and Single Actions would be the highest average costs.

Here is a picture of a 1917 Perfected with target stocks. They are all round butt revolvers and most often have the standard black hard rubber stocks, but extended target stocks were avaialble as an option to purchase from the factory.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

The Perfected model is built on the frame of the 1903 hand ejector, and the trigger guard is a part of the frame. It also has the side plate and screws on the right side. Almost all of them have a thumb latch like the hand ejector as well as the top latch.

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Tom
1560

Perfected models don't come around very often. Safety Hammerless .38s are probably more easily obtained in good condition, and are interesting.

I love top breaks...in the picture below there are 9 Smith and Wesson top breaks. In my collection I have over 80 top breaks from different manufactures....





Not sure if it is allowed but if you want to learn more on top breaks you are welcome to join my FB page on top breaks

https://www.facebook.com/groups/TopBreakRevolvers/

I wish you luck finding a Perfected Model. S&W only made 59,000 from 1909 thru 1920. I had # 1xx in perfect condition. Look into S&W double action 38's as they made many of them. Last one I got I paid 90 bucks for. Only in 40% condition but shoots very well. In fact it is very accurate.

Appreciate the advise Gents. I like the looks of the Perfected Model and doesn't seem the prices are out of reach (maybe the single shot models).

What is the purpose of the thumb latch? Is it a redundant method to break the action in addition to the top latch or both have to be used together to break the action open?

One story I have heard is that the factory wanted a stronger action revolver that could handle the new smokless powder loads. Early turn of the century catalogs stated that the company would not gaurantee the use of smokeless powders in their top-break guns, but shortly after that time, the company fully supported the use of smokeless cmmunition in all their revolvers. They are somewhat awkward to load, since it took both hands to open the action. One hand to lift the top latch and other to hold the gun and push the thumb latch.

Another possibility was that there was still demand for top-break revolvers, but the company had switched over to the manufacture of solid frame HEs. The only way to continue to make top-breaks was to modify the 32 HE frame to make a 38 HE,whch, of course, already had the thumb latch.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

The two .38 S & W double actions in your post #3 photos are called...the .38 Double Action . How nice it must have been before the era of marketing consultants dreaming up names like Street Sweeper.

Regarding the .38 Perfected, one reported reason for the double latches was to prevent the action to be opened during a struggle by grabbing the top latch. Some early ones (perhaps made for a foreign contract?) did not have the side thumb piece.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Minor correction: "Some early ones (perhaps made for a foreign contract?) did not have the side thumb piece." The absence of the thumb latch occurred later in production. The observed serial numbers are around the 52,000's.

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Mike Maher #283

One story about the Perfected model was that with earlier top break revolvers, if a cop got the drop on a BG, the BG could grab the gun and jerk up on the top release latch, opening the revolver and making it useless. That couldn't be done with the perfected model as the side release also had to be simultaneously pressed to open it. In any event, a great many of the Perfected revolvers were sold overseas, and that's another reason they are fairly scarce on the US market. In over 40 years, I have only seen one of them, but I imagine they show up occasionally on the internet auction sites.

They definitely make for an interesting look.

Appreciate all the info. I anticipate this will be a very enjoyable hobby.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Came across this one recently. Pictures aren't the best and not sure how significant the provenance of being used by the Railway Express Agency is. I know they were a UPS like group established by the Federal Gov't back in the early 1900s.

I've asked for better pictures of the nickel wear near the grips, as well as the top strap. Asking questions on lockup and indexing/mechanical condition.







Starting price is $779 with a buy it now for $1299. Seems like a good candidate if the price remains below $800 but don't see paying much more.

Anything else I should be looking for or other thoughts/advice you all may have?

It looks original but the nickel loss/pitting on the left frame is a major shame. If the rest of the gun from other angles minus this looks the same it would be worth $779, but with the boo-boo pictured I would not be inclined to pay that much.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

First, a holster has no bearing on whether this revolver was Railway Express Agency issued or not. As I see no pictures of the same stamping on the gun, assume it is not marked.

Price is about 3X to 4X its value and as nice is most of the finish appears to be, the world's deepest pitting ever seen on a firearm does not seem to be important enough to the seller to photograph closely. Maybe that is why there seems to be so much creative lighting.

For me, poor quality pictures are a sign that something is wrong with the camera or the seller. Buyer beware.

Forgot to mention the stocks look incorrect as well and probably do not match the serial number.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

To give you an idea of realized auction prices, I ran across this blued Perfected last night that sold on Amoskeag Auction for $700 plus commission, which I thought was high. It had been estimated $400 - $600.

I recently picked up a shooter nickel Perfected for $110 plus commission at another auction that was estimated from $200 ro $350. This one will clean up some, but it should shoot great. Bottom line is don't hurry your purchase and look at many auctions.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Thanks for the comments and advice. I thought the pictures were a little odd. I've asked for more taken outside without the artificial light. Curious if the pitting as bad as it appears.

So is the going rate somewhere around the $400-600 range for a very good to excellent version of a Perfected Model?

Any particular place to to keep an eye on? Not asking for the location of your Honey hole but I typically monitor the larger online gun auction sights.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did you find the 2 revolvers that I posted before those auctions closed? If not, broaden your search. Rock Island, Carol Watson, James Julia, Amoskeag, plus many more auction houses have regularly scheduled online auctions. Keep checking the standard private seller auctions like Gunbroker, GunsInternational, Gunsamerica, Gunauction, etc., plus local gun shops.

I have also found specific revolvers for sale by doing Internet searches. Try "Wesson Perfected For Sale" and see what happens. BTW - I would do it before October 1.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Gary,

Actually caught it after they closed yesterday. Looked at the Amoskeag Auction catalog and saw some very interesting pieces but little late on the draw.

I'm signed up for private seller sites you listed, plus Invaluable. I'll pull in the auction houses that you listed as well.

Appreciate the advise.

I'll bite. What is special about 1 Oct?

Mike

Sorry Mike - I found a Perfected with an Internet search, but it was an auction that closed on October 1, 2006. . . oh well, keep looking.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Thanks just the same. As you said, just taking my time.


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Okay, I'm staying away from online live auctions. Almost bought a Model #3 SA Target in 32-44, but when it went north of $1000, my senses came back to me.

Glad I decided not to collect Colt SA. Nice collection of early HE though but they went for a pretty penny too.

This picture will look familiar to most since I asked for input on a different thread, but I picked it up yesterday.





A very interesting revolver. It is smaller than I anticipated, but finish is very good outside of the sideplates, plus it has the pearl grips and 1914 patent date.

Still don't understand the logic of the side ejector and top break, despite the history. Definitely doesn't lend itself for fast reloads and can see why the HE models had greater popularity when both were considered modern firearms.

Have a couple six inch Model 3s coming in on Monday, also in 38 S&W. Curious to see the differences in frame size.