1 1/2 with dovetail in butt.

EskilGH · #1 11-21-2014, 10:38 AM

Hi
I have a 1 1/2 with a dovetail in the butt. Anyone seen this before?
Was this done at the factory or is it someone who has fitted a sholder stock or a similar device after it left the factory?

Best regards
Eskil

deadin · #2 11-21-2014, 11:15 AM

Pretty sure it was after it left the factory as it also removed the serial number. Is the serial re-marked under the grips??

EskilGH · #3 11-21-2014, 11:25 AM

Hi
Thanks for the reply. No re-marking on the frame, just on the grips.
117601

Eskil

H Richard · #4 11-21-2014, 12:18 PM

In the US that would be illegal under BATF regulations. I don't know in Norway.

deadin · #5 11-21-2014, 12:32 PM

You should find the same number on the rear of the barrel extension, the bottom of the latch and the rear of the cylinder (See picture).
However, as H Richard pointed out, your gun would be illegal in the US as the only serial that counts is the one on the frame....

glowe · #6 11-21-2014, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H Richard

In the US that would be illegal under BATF regulations. I don't know in Norway.

This gun is not considered a firearm by the BATF, so I do not believe there are any restrictions on owning a non-firearm without a serial number.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadin

You should find the same number on the rear of the barrel extension, the bottom of the latch and the rear of the cylinder . . .

The Model 1 1/2 has no other serial numbers, only assembly numbers or letters on the front of the cylinder, butt frame, and the rear of the barrel.

I can not imagine that that slot would have been done at the factory. Have never seen this done before and just can not think of what it would have been for. Nice tip-Up with a mystery.

EskilGH · #7 11-21-2014, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H Richard

In the US that would be illegal under BATF regulations. I don't know in Norway.

Hi
In Norway all firearms produced before 1890 and made for blackpowder is not considered a firearm and is omitted registration.
All other firearms must be registered with the police and kept in a safe when not in use.

Eskil

EskilGH · #8 11-21-2014, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowe

I can not imagine that that slot would have been done at the factory. Have never seen this done before and just can not think of what it would have been for. Nice tip-Up with a mystery.

I have been wondering about the use of this dovetail for a while now :-).
It looks professionally done. Would have been fun to know whats it is for.

Br
Eskil

deadin · #9 11-21-2014, 06:28 PM

Quote:

This gun is not considered a firearm by the BATF, so I do not believe there are any restrictions on owning a non-firearm without a serial number.

Under this logic replicas are considered antiques. I wonder if filing off the serial on them is OK?

scooter123 · #10 11-21-2014, 07:13 PM

IIRC any firearm made before 1898 is exempted from a lot of requirements in the US and it's likely that serial numbers are included in that exemption. However it might be a bit difficult to prove a particular firearm was produced before that date, so it could be a really gray area in the Law.

As for hte dovetail cut in this revolver I would suspect it was for two possibilities.

1) Is to permit mounting a buttstock. Seems a rather foolish choice for a low energy 32 caliber with a short barrel but people sometimes do things some might find odd to deal with a disability.

2) Would be to allow this pistol to be mounted inside a satchel, briefcase, or similar hand carried item as a remotely triggered "hideout gun". There were periods in the mid to late 1800's when doing something like this wasn't as uncommon as it would be today.

deadin · #11 11-21-2014, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Would have been fun to know whats it is for.

I would imagine it was for mounting a skeleton stock similar to this:

glowe · #12 11-21-2014, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadin

Under this logic replicas are considered antiques. I wonder if filing off the serial on them is OK?

That is a good question, but replicas are new manufacture, so do not qualify as antiques. I have always gone by the following rule, but the definition of certain types of replica firearms would be included in this rule contained in the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide by United States, Tobacco Bureau of Alcohol, and Firearms.

An antique firearm as defined in both the GCA and NFA is exempt from all of the provisions and restrictions contained in both laws. Consequently, such an antique firearm may be bought, sold, transported, and shipped, etc., without regard to the requirements of these laws.

glowe · #13 11-21-2014, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooter123

. . . dovetail cut in this revolver I would suspect it was for two possibilities.

1) Is to permit mounting a buttstock . . .
2) Would be to allow this pistol to be mounted inside a satchel, briefcase, or similar hand carried item as a remotely triggered "hideout gun".

I also thought about a buttstock, but it would have been a waste of time and energy for a short barreled tip-up.

I like the idea of this gun being attached to some type of spring loaded contraption that would fit under a gambler's sleeve.

mmaher94087 · #14 11-22-2014, 11:05 AM

"..but it would have been a waste of time and energy for a short barreled tip-up." I agree; but this caliber/design was 'state of the art' at one time.

Wiregrassguy · #15 11-22-2014, 02:48 PM

IIRC, replicas are not antiques. But, rather fall in the C&R category.

deadin · #16 11-22-2014, 03:39 PM

Quote:

IIRC, replicas are not antiques. But, rather fall in the C&R category.

Certain replicas are classified as antiques in some cases....

Federal definition (including the USPS):

Quote:

(A)any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B)any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica —
(i)is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii)uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade

However Washington State now classifies replicas and antiques as the same.. If either are chambered in conventional centerfire ammunition that is readily available, they are not antiques. (They also no-longer recognize C&R's)

This means that your favorite top-break in 38 S&W made in 1885 or that nice pre-1899 Model 94 Winchester 30/30 are no longer antiques (per the latest initiative that just passed.)
Hopefully this will get straightened out...

EskilGH · #17 11-23-2014, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowe

I also thought about a buttstock, but it would have been a waste of time and energy for a short barreled tip-up.

I like the idea of this gun being attached to some type of spring loaded contraption that would fit under a gambler's sleeve.

I like this idea. Maybe I should make one :-).

Thanks for all the answers guys.
I've got the answers I was after, I think. That S&W did not produce any contraption that used a gun of this type.

Best regards
Eskil