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Old 01-27-2015, 02:05 PM
OH58D OH58D is offline
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This is my first post here. I live in the beautiful State of New Mexico, and have a modest collection of S&W pistols. I am also one of the winning bidders from the New Model Schofield Auction for the first 125 produced back in 2000.

Anyway, I recently acquired a New Model 3 which I believe is in .44 Russian. It's in the low 4XXX range so probably produced about 1878. It was factory refurbished a long time ago and has the star stamp on the butt. The pistol seems to be in fine shape for some black powder shooting in the future, but I notice there is some minor side to side movement at the pivot point where the barrel assembly screws to the frame. It's not a great amount of movement, but I was wondering if there is a fix for this? Perhaps some kind of circular shims on each side?

I am no gunsmith and I have noticed that one well known gunsmith for these firearms is now out of the picture. Any recommendations on this?

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Old 01-27-2015, 03:07 PM
rct269 rct269 is offline
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Note the "nut" (right side) for the screw that holds everything together at this point has (should have) a little (locating) tab on it. Note also the index mark stamped in/on the frame at this point----at the front of the hole. The locating tab fits into a recess aligned with the index mark----which results in the "nut" fitting (essentially) flush with the frame. Given that all is as it should be, and the screw is tight, I have not the foggiest idea why things are loose.

If, on the other hand, someone who shall remain nameless to protect the guilty, has been messing with this gun while not paying attention to what was going on around them-------------------well, what can I say? (!!)

Ralph Tremaine

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Old 01-27-2015, 04:00 PM
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If the 'ears' on the frame have been spread, the simple fix is to pinch it very slightly in a padded vise. I would do some careful measuring first to compare the spread at the front and rear of the 'ears'. If it is parallel, then you may want to make some very thin shims. I suspect however that you will find it's simply spread apart a bit and a squeeze will fix it.
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Old 01-27-2015, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgt4570 View Post
If the 'ears' on the frame have been spread, the simple fix is to pinch it very slightly in a padded vise. I would do some careful measuring first to compare the spread at the front and rear of the 'ears'. If it is parallel, then you may want to make some very thin shims. I suspect however that you will find it's simply spread apart a bit and a squeeze will fix it.
This is what I was thinking, but wondering the best way to do this. I see that to remove the barrel assembly, the left screw comes out and then punch out the nut from the pivot point, allowing removal of the barrel, making sure to replace it later lined up with the index mark. I wonder if this "squeeze" of the "ears" could be done with the barrel assembly in place using a padded vice?
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Old 01-28-2015, 01:37 AM
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You'll have to take the barrel off for this. Be sure you use a properly fitting screwdriver for the pivot screw and be careful not to 'bugger' it.
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Old 01-28-2015, 03:41 AM
Hang-Fire Hank Hang-Fire Hank is offline
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OH58D: Regarding ship date, I own a NM #3 with serial #33xx, which lettered with a ship date of 1/21/1882, so your 4xxx must follow that date, not precede it. Took 'er out a week ago today on her 133rd "birthday" & shot ten .44 Russian rounds (BP substitute).

Enjoy! Hank
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:37 AM
mrcvs mrcvs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hang-Fire Hank View Post
OH58D: Regarding ship date, I own a NM #3 with serial #33xx, which lettered with a ship date of 1/21/1882, so your 4xxx must follow that date, not precede it.
Not necessarily! Smith & Wesson is notorious for sequential serial numbers not being chronological as well.
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Old 01-28-2015, 10:06 AM
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Last night I took a closer look at this and may want to have a qualified S&W gunsmith do the work. Could anyone recommend a quality shop deal with this kind of antique? Regarding the age of this pistol, I have just sent a request with fee to S&W for their history letter.

Last edited by OH58D; 01-28-2015 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 01-28-2015, 01:42 PM
rct269 rct269 is offline
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Metal work 101: IF the "ears" are bent out, then yes, they can be bent back; but not with the barrel assembly in place. Why? Because when you bend "hard" metal ("hard" steel vs. "soft" aluminum), there's a certain amount of "spring" involved-----which is to say when you move the "ears" in, and then remove the force, the "ears" are going to spring back out----some. Accordingly, you have to move the ears in more than the finished dimension to allow for the change when they "spring" back out.

All that said, let's talk about vises-----which are rather crude instruments vs. the original screw and nut; which in this application are fine, delicate instruments, and which will be exerting equal force on both ears (!!!!)---as would a vise.

Now let's talk about how one could bend these ears, BOTH of them, OUT in the first place----because that totally escapes me!

And finally, when both a complete and proper diagnosis has been competed----and a complete and proper treatment has been determined, let me suggest you put all the pieces in a box, and ship it off to someone who knows what they're doing!

Lord have mercy!!!

Ralph Tremaine

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Old 01-28-2015, 03:41 PM
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Ralph, thanks for the advise. Being here in the Wild West, I know a gun smith who has been in the business for over 30 years. He does a lot of work for the Cowboy Action competition shooting crowd. He just got done taking a look at the pistol and he tried a .003 feeler gauge and it was a perfect fit to remove the side to side play. The right side "ear" was very slightly off after he did his measurements. The left ear was fine. Instead of using a vice for any corrective bending, the plan is to shim the pivot action. The second photo shows the pivot area gap on the right side.







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Old 01-28-2015, 09:55 PM
mrcvs mrcvs is offline
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It could be the lighting, but are you 100% sure that is the factory refinish on that firearm? I am suspecting a refinish after the factory refinish. Again, it could be the lighting, but some of the tolerances are not what I would expect and the finish looks dull compared to that typically turned out by Smith & Wesson, refinish or otherwise.
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Old 01-28-2015, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
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It could be the lighting, but are you 100% sure that is the factory refinish on that firearm? I am suspecting a refinish after the factory refinish.
What was done at the factory and when it happened I just don't know. I am guessing some rework was done at S&W prior to the 1940s. The pistol has been in a safe for quite a number of years, possibly 50 or more. I do agree that this looks like a non-factory finish. I am just happy that the surface metal is in great shape, and the barrel interior is in fantastic shape. Note there is still some case color on the trigger guard.

Hopefully the factory letter I receive will provide more data about this pistol's history. I may consider looking for a top end smith to restore the pistol to a finish that would replicate how it looked originally from the factory.
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