44-40 Frontier Lanyard / questions?

barryatabc24 · #1 04-22-2015, 08:03 AM

Hey all, question about a recent aquisition. I have a 44-40 with a 2 1/2" barrel. SN 14491. While this "may" be a refinish, its a very good quality, and very old. There is a factory crown on the muzzel and the site is properly pinned. Here in lies the rub, and was wondering if anyone has insight on the following observations
1) Were these models offered with a lanyard, or do you think it was added later? The serial number is not on the butt, but instead on the front over the main spring. It is the same "historic style" as original.
2) Were these ever offered with a shorter 2 1/2" barrel? Perhaps a post 1900 production?
3) The top of the barrel is smooth. I seem to remember that this would be correct for the later versions of 44wcf?
4) The matching serial number on the barrel under the latch has a "B" following. Any idea what this is for?
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I may just need to order a letter from Jinks, but meanwhile any help would be appreciated.

Thanks again!

glowe · #2 04-22-2015, 08:54 AM

OK - first, I like the gun. Great idea of a nineteenth century concealed carry gun. Now to your questions.

1) Were these models offered with a lanyard . . . I will say that these revolvers were not offered as standard from the factory with a lanyard, but could be ordered from the factory with one. With the serial number on the front of the frame, it would be likely it was a factory job. Back in the day, gunsmiths and blackemiths did not care about numbers on the butt.

2) Were these ever offered with a shorter 2 1/2" barrel? 4" was the shortest offered from the factory. Could you order a shorter barrel, maybe, but I bet the factory rib stamping is missing or partial on the top of the barrel. There were ways the factory stamped address and/or patents on the side of a short barreled gun.

3) The top of the barrel is smooth. My opinion is that the gun has been cut.

4) The matching serial number on the barrel under the latch has a "B" following. After 1900, it was common to stamp the finish on the butt or other locations on the gun. The B would have signified blued gun originally. Check under the stocks to see if there are any other marks.

I would say the gun was refinished as evidenced by the deeply dished serial numbers on the butt, plus what looks like rust pitting between the ears of the top frame. Let me add that the trigger and hammer look blued and they should be faded case colored after over 100 years.

barryatabc24 · #3 04-22-2015, 09:42 AM

Thanks Gary...I think this is one of those..."it is what it is" situations...At least they did it right...I love the little pistol and felt like you when I saw it as an early conceal carry...I think I may still seek out a letter, just for nostalgia sake, but worse case...I've got a clean, tight, fun shooting pistola.

glowe · #4 04-22-2015, 11:04 AM

That gun would have shipped around 1910, but the BATF considers all 44 DAs as antiques, since all frames were manufactured prior to 1899.

mmaher94087 · #5 04-22-2015, 11:30 AM

My two cents: It is a neat snubby but I too would bet on a cut barrel and refinish. The soft edges, smeared letters and numbers, no barrel markings, the re-stamping of the serial number on the front strap and, lastly, the lanyard ring is the wrong style for S&W all of which lead me to that conclusion.

4330Inroute · #6 04-22-2015, 11:43 AM

WOW! is all I can add to the discussion. Someone was serious about their carry piece. Nice pictures too.

deadin · #7 04-22-2015, 12:17 PM

Definitely a refinish. Blued trigger & hammer, non S&W crown plus those points already mentioned. To me the grips are a little suspicious as they don't quite fit right, although this could be from the shaving of the bottom of the frame that removed the serial number. (They also appear to stand a little proud of the frontstrap.)
Still, a nice looking conversion......

opoefc · #8 04-22-2015, 12:22 PM

.44-40 DA, ser. # 14491 was manufactured on Sept. 11, 1907 as part of an order for 400 blue guns. The order has a special notation " To be numbered on inside tang" which I interpret to mean the butt was not serial number stamped, and the serial number was stamped on the front of the grip frame. The reason for this is obvious: The gun had a lanyard swivel installed at the factory, necessitating that the serial number be stamped elsewhere than the butt. One can surmise that an order for 400 guns with butt swivels, in 44-40 cal., was not an everyday occurrence at S&W, so the factory historical letter for this gun may show a foreign dealer destination, as configurations of this type were popular in foreign counties like So. America and the middle East. There is no mention in the production record of a special shooter barrel, therefore the gun left S&W with a barrel length longer than 2 1/2 in. The gun has been refinished in the past and the barrel cut to it's present length. Although not factory, it's a neat gun that met a need for a prior owner. Ed.

Schof45 · #9 04-22-2015, 03:22 PM

A very neat and unique S&W. Please post the factory letter when you get it.

barryatabc24 · #10 04-22-2015, 07:59 PM

Top of barrel finish.

glowe · #11 04-22-2015, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opoefc

. . . . The order has a special notation " To be numbered on inside tang" which I interpret to mean the butt was not serial number stamped, and the serial number was stamped on the front of the grip frame. The reason for this is obvious: The gun had a lanyard swivel installed at the factory, necessitating that the serial number be stamped elsewhere than the butt . . .

Thanks for that Ed. I thought the number on the front of the butt frame looked legit, but as Mike pointed out, it does not appear to be a standard lanyard made by S&W? Did the company make any lanyard rings like that one??

opoefc · #12 04-23-2015, 12:12 AM

Yes, That's a lanyard ring style seen on a few S&Ws circa 1880-1910 era, mostly on foreign orders to my recollection. Ed.

barryatabc24 · #13 04-23-2015, 07:53 AM

Thanks a lot for all the chatter guys...you all are a wealth of information. I mailed a check this morning for a historical letter so hopefully that will shed some light as well.
I was suspecting a lot of what I'm reading, but confirmation is awesome...obviously the grips are aftermarket and weren't fit when installed. I don't think the metal of the butt has been modified causing any of the fit issues, just a grip issue.
Also, I puuled the side plate and grips off last night and was amazed how clean the internals were. No rust on any of the springs, or common areas. The hammer, trigger, and guard have an obvious modern deep blue, and I suspect you all are correct about the re-nickel as well. I'm just thankful they didn't bugger up the lines or the stampings. im still not sure if the serial number blur is a result of plating process or a over zealous gunsmith. It almost has a look like if you stamped numbers into a Tin can...but I could be wrong...

Anyway, thanks again everybody. Everything looks tight and in time, may see a little range time this weekend!

glowe · #14 04-23-2015, 08:31 AM

Please bring this Thread back when you get the letter and share those results. It will be interesting to verify what the 44DA looked like when it left the factory and where it went.

When you look at pristine examples of factory stampings, you will usually see a slightly raised portion of metal around the numbers and not a depression as can be obtained by a buffing wheel. The butt frame is 1/4" of steel, so when struck with a die, the metal has nowhere to go except to rais around the die. It was many years before I was able to afford truly pristine examples of any model, so began to think all stampings were buffed and blurred after they were struck by the factory. After owning some high finish original guns it became quite easy to spot the differences. Also, S&W stamped everything they made with at least the company name and address line. If it did not fit on the top of the barrel, they would move it to the side.