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S&W Antiques S&W Lever Action Pistols, Tip-Up Revolvers, ALL Top-Break Revolvers, and ALL Single Shots


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Old 05-01-2015, 03:08 PM
Dnovo1 Dnovo1 is offline
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Default Shooting Smokeless in Pre-1898s

I have a SMITH & WESSON DA/SA 3RD MODEL TOP BREAK .38 REVOLVER, 5 IN. BBL. in a set with a 22 LR 6 IN.MODEL 91 TARGET BBL that is mechanically damn near new, good bores, action cylinders, etc. Normally I would.not shoot smokeless in a pre-98 gun, but given that a 22 can be found in plinking loads and a 38S&W is SAMMI loaded to low pressure because of so many antique D/As out there can I try shooting these in this set or am I risking a face full of exploding metal? David
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Old 05-01-2015, 05:41 PM
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UMC was offering smokeless powder loadings in a wide variety of calibers, including rimfire, centerfire revolver, centerfile rifle, and shotshells in their 1895 ammunition catalog. I have always suspected that many, if not most, of the old S&W top-break revolvers of that era (and handguns from other manufacturers as well) never fired a single black powder cartridge. If you are concerned about the safety of your Model 91 barrel, you could always use CCI CB caps. I don't believe standard velocity .22 target loadings would be unsafe either.
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Old 05-01-2015, 06:26 PM
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Yes, that's good info. I was also going to recommend CB caps. I suspect standard velocity 22 lr is safe. The big change in 22 LR ammo came with the intro of high velocity ammo in the early 20th century. Guns were often advertised as to their suitability with this new stuff.
If you're still concerned, you can search for the recently released 22 rimfire reloading tool kit. You can even search it here on this forum. (Sorry can't figure out how to insert the link on my ipad.)
Anyhow, the kit can be used with smokeless, black powder, or just primer power.

Enjoy!
Jim
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Old 05-01-2015, 08:04 PM
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Thanks for your thoughts on 22s. Anyone have any comments about the safety of current 38 S&W loads for the other half of this combination?
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Old 05-01-2015, 08:11 PM
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Almost all single-shot barrels were made after 1898 and I would wager a bit that every one of them have shot boxes upon boxes of smokeless 22 LR. Good thing you don't have a 10" SS barrel, I would be worried about the bullet from a CB Cap getting stuck. Besides, I would like to know where in the world can a person can find that type of ammo today?

I'm curious how the set is made up? It almost certainly was not supplied from the factory in that configuration. Could you supply some photos? As for the 38 DA frame, it will most certainly a 22 LR round.
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Old 05-01-2015, 08:37 PM
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Sorry. Camera is on the fritz just now. While the combo and the general makeup of the box tracks the description of these sets under the Single Shot section in Supica, I bought it as a set but did not pay for it as an original rather than a put-together set. Real, authenticated combos of this ilk (i.e factory lettered) are fairly expensive Hen's teeth. Nope just a fun set albeit the pieces are in remarkable condition, especially the 91 barrel with the nickel nigh on mint and looking little used at all. David
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Old 05-01-2015, 09:23 PM
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We can help date the barrel if you can find a serial number? That would give you an idea of what era the barrel came from. If the barrel is nickel, it is likely it came from a SS pistol or an original set and would have been serial numbered at the factory.
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Old 05-01-2015, 10:27 PM
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6" 22 LR bbl, 5" 38 D/A and both nickel, and as I said before, I doubt if is an original set. Still curious about how a smokeless 38 S&W load will work in the latter. David
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Old 05-01-2015, 11:57 PM
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Factory .38 S&W loads are perfectly safe in any .38 S&W revolver. They are loaded to peak chamber pressures equivalent to or lower than the old BP loadings. I routinely shoot .38 S&W reloads which are somewhat hotter than factory loads in a .38 DA 4th Model and with no incidents. I wouldn't use the Buffalo Bore .38 S&W loads, but those are not intended for use in top breaks anyway.

Some people preach about the dangers of mysterious gun-wrecking "pressure spikes" associated with smokeless loads of the old BP cartridges. There is in fact no such thing associated with the anemic factory loads. As I said earlier, factory smokeless .38 S&W cartridges have been around since the early 1890s, so there is nothing dangerous about them.

" Besides, I would like to know where in the world can a person can find that type of ammo (.22 CB) today?"

It's around. I see some of it at about any gun show. Next best thing would be standard velocity .22 Short. It's still loaded by CCI, but is probably harder to find than .22 CBs. Nonetheless, I found four bricks of Aguila .22 Short SV at a very reasonable price at a gun show about 6 months ago. I have quite a large stockpile of it in various brands (Eley, CCI, Western, Remington, and Aguila) put away as it's the only ammunition I can use in my older Hi-Standard Olympic Rapid Fire pistol. I love to shoot that pistol - it groups extremely well at 25 yards (less than 1", 5 shot groups, over sandbags), little noise (no hearing protection needed), and recoil about like shooting a CO2 pellet pistol. Best thing is I don't have to reload it.

Last edited by DWalt; 05-02-2015 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 05-02-2015, 08:05 AM
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Thanks for the 38 and 22 info. I'm going out and do a bit of shooting at the range tomorrow. I already have some 38 S&W I use in a couple newer guns and some 22 Short for my Pardini Target Auto. David
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