hi all,
I picked up this old .44 Russian top break that looks to be a smith and wesson top break russian model, but has no rollmarks or factory marks that I can find. I know there were a bunch of copies at the time as well.
I would like to find out the maker and year of production (hopefully pre 1898 so I can de-register it)

heres a couple pics... sorry for the quality

Photographs show either a put-together S&W or a copy. My opinion is that you have a copy, probably European. The barrel ejector housing is much too short to be from an original 44 SA and would only be found on 44 DAs and NM3s.

S&W always marked their revolvers on the top rib with name, address, and patent dates and, since your gun does not look refinished, I see no such stamping.

Is it a single-action or double action? Also, is there a serial number on the butt near the lanyard ring?

I am adding a photo of the two models of 44 Russians for comparison to yours. Top is a 3rd Model and the bottom is a 2nd Model. They also had walnut stocks and not hard rubber.

Attached Images

P7290010.jpg (70.9 KB, 50 views)

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Does it have any kind of marks anywhere? (Proof marks on the back of the cylinder, etc.)
I think Gary is right, a copy or assembled from raw parts.
It is probably pre 1899, but unless you can identify the maker or proof dates, there will be no way to prove it.

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

The stocks appear to be Spanish; possibly Hermanos Y Ibarra? I apologize for the spelling as I'm not on top of the name.

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Mike Maher #283

Serial is 37XX
I do not have it in my posession right now but no proof marks or makers marks were noted. I'll post more when I get it back. It is a SA revolver.

Someone's got to know who made it.

Its not so easy to determine who made a counterfeit revolver, since the manufacturer would not have wanted to make it easy for S&W to trace the gun back to his factory. Most of these guns were patent infringements, so care was taken to make sure nobody could trace back to who made them. Spain and Belgium were the major countries from which most counterfeit guns came from, but there are others like Russia, Turkey, etc.

Check for an oval with the letters ELG inside, maybe on the rear of the cylinder, which would indicate Belgium, but if there are no marks anywhere, you will most likely not be able to determine age or origin.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I'll look it over completely and post what I find. I'm leaning towards a hermanos or a smith/hermanos hybrid.
Needs some adjustment but should make a good shooter when done. Hopefully I can gather enough proof that it's pre 1898

i got the gun and gave it a lookover. Its in terrible shape for one, but another it appears to be a Orbea Hermanos.
I can make out a vague O.H. On the grip panels.
any idea on the manufacture date?