I recently picked up an S&W at an online auction that was described as a standard 44 Double Action revolver. When I got is home, it turned out to be a 44 DA Frontier in 44-40. Pretty scarce gun that I am glad I got hold of for not much money. The gun hass smooth metal, no pitting, good bore, good action, but now for the bad news. The tip of the hammer is broken off and would not fire if tried.

Now my dilemma is how to put it back in service?? I am wondering if anyone has successfully repaired a firing pin on these revolvers? I can start looking for a replacement hammer, but would like to weld this one if possible. The hammer seems to be the only part of this gun that was abused, so worth a try . . . maybe. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

If it were me, I would be looking for a hammer simply for the challenge. If you go to re-sell it with an accurate representation, as most would, having a serviceable hammer with it sure wouldn't hurt. Sounds like you might have the headroom for a working hammer.

Nice acquisition!

Gary, good looking 44 other than the hammer. It can be welded by any competent welder. I imagine it was case hardened at one time but that won't matter anymore. You just need the exact length and profile of the hammer nose.

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Tom
NRA Pistol Inst

Tom is right. I bought a wire feed welder for projects just like this. I bought a Remington Rolling block for a song with a messed up barrel and damaged hammer spur. the barrel was a easy find the spur I decided to weld up and reshape. I am not the best at it but got it done a tip should be easy once you know what it should look like a tracing of the proper tip shape is really what you need.

I'm not a welder, but know enough that it takes different kinds of rod/wire for different kinds of metal. Be sure you use the correct kind so as not to burn it up. The exact length is the key, and would recommend making it a little longer and stone/file it very slowly until the exact length is reached. I'm sure some of our members could furnish you with the correct protrusion form the recoil shield. Good luck and let us see the results. That's a nice looking one.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Thanks to all. I think I will try to have this hammer welded while looking for an replacement. If anyone has a 44 DA, I would appreciate some dimensions. I need overall length from face of hemmer to tip and diameter of the end of the firing pin.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I have a .44 DA First Model, which Mr Jinks informed me last week, was shipped May of 1900. The overall length from the face of the hammer to the tip is 0.45 inch and the end of the firing pin would not be a diametrical value, as it is not round but tapered and flat on all four sides; the end of the tapered firing pin appears to be less pronounced than further back with regards to the four sides. As best I can determine, the distance, left to right, is approximately .065 inch, and top to bottom, it is .069 inch.

Merry Christmas!

Thanks, just what I needed. Mine measures .42", so there is not much missing. Probably make it slightly longer than needed, as suggested by H Richard, then trim it down until I get the length I want. I will do some research on what type weld wire will provide the best material for the project.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

From the photo of the hammer, it looks like there was a past attempt to weld/repair it, as there are two different colors of the metal, which could mean you need two different heat levels to either remove the old weld or try to apply a new weld to the two different metals. Good Luck. Ed.

Nice piece you have there. I would send it in to S&W for repair and an overall inspection & tune-up from them. But that's just me.

Gary,
I just gave a quick measure of my Frontier. The FP is flat sided out to nearly the end and is then id round and slightly tapered. My measurements are as follows: Face to very end of pin = .483
Face to where the round part starts = .427
Length of tip ~ .056.
Diameter of tip at widest part = .076 (It then slightly tapers to a rounded point.

If you want I will send you some extreme close-up photos, but I won't be able to get to it until after the holidays.....

Dean

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Good eye Ed. Looking at the hammer, it looked like metal worn bright, but on closer inspection, it does have a repair on the top of the firing pin. The best bet might be to replace the entire firing pin, welding it where there is more metal at the base of the hammer.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Thanks Dean. Actually, it would be good to get a couple pictures. I think it would be of great assistance to the guy who will make the repair to the hammer. I am in no rush, so whenever you get the chance.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

That existing repair looks like silver solder to me. Nowhere near strong enough for a firing pin. You're going to need a MIG or TIG lump welded on and then filing/grinding it to shape.

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

FYI, A poster above suggested sending the gun to S&W for repairs. S&W will not work on any guns that they do not have parts in stock for repairs, which includes some pretty recently produced guns. Ed.

I don't think it's a good idea to try to weld that hammer yourself unless you are already a good welder. A piece that small is a disaster waiting to happen if you don 't get it exactly right the first time. As some have pointed out, it appears that it has had an attempted repair at some time in the past and this could be either silver-brazing or even conventional brazing.
In either case the attempt to weld over the non-steel material would likely result in excessive spatter and very poor weld quality, if it could be done at all. Welding unknown mixes of materials/alloys is a serious issue, and on a piece this small you can't rely on an excess of material to dilute/minimize the problem.
Cutting it back to clean base metal would be the best bet to get it done.
I would use Gas Tungsten Arc Welding (GTAW), formerly known as TIG welding, to get the best quality weld with maximum control of the process.
Buying a proper welder and learning to use it is nowhere near cost-effective for a task like this, but if it serves as a good rationalization for doing what is a good idea anyway (buying a welder and learning to use it), then that would be a different situation.
Other than doing that, it would be better to find a gunsmith who *really* knows how to do precision welding and pay him to do it.

I have several top-break .44's myself (one Frontier), and I'd like to see this nice one put back into service.

My qualifications for commenting on welding issues:
Growing up in my Dad's welding business, on the practical side - probably 50 years total welding experience - plus Ph. D. in Mechanical Engineering with dissertation topic on automated welding control, several years research for NASA on welding systems for use on Space Shuttle, numerous consulting jobs for various aerospace companies

Gary,
Check your PM's. I just sent some pics.
Let me know if they are readable....

Dean

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Gary, one option is to cut your hammer back to the flat and have a donor hammer nose welded on . I don't know if a 38 hammer nose is close but its worth a try.

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Tom
NRA Pistol Inst

Thanks Tom. I have decided to have the whole firing pin removed and a new one installed. I think that will offer the strongest repair option and I will have a new firing pin made. About the only other revolvers for salvaging a firing pin for the the 44 DA would be earlier Model 3s, but those hammers are also hard to find.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Gary,
Were it mine I think I would first try to just fix the tip. Have a lump welded on and reshape it to the proper dimensions.
You can always try to replace the whole thing if the tip fix doesn't work.
In looking at my Frontier, amputating the entire firing pin and replacing it very likely would turn into a can of worms.
One big problem would be that there could be NO fillet of weld where the side of the replacement pin meets the face of the hammer. The hammer has to fall all the way forward and the slot in the frame that the pin passes through has no clearance for other than a sharp 90 deg. corner. By the time all signs on a weld has been ground away, what's to hold the replacement in place?
I suppose one could widen the slot in the frame enough to accommodate the weld.....
Another would be to cut a slot in the hammer face and mortise in the replacement pin to be held by a cross pin of some sort. However this would require that the hammer be annealed to allow it to be milled and then it would have to be rehardened. (And it would show from the outside....)
All in all, it makes the tip fix seem like a better first step...

Dean

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Gary, I had a Colt SAA hammer rebuilt by Bob Cogan. He is a wizzard on these types of projects...if he will take the job. I highly recommend him.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Thanks Dean & Guy. Great advise and a good lead on an expert welder is just what I need. I do have an experienced tool & die man who also does some welding, but have not yet ask about my project. If he does not want to do it, I think I will contact Bob.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Gary, when I needed a trigger sear welded I found a welder that specialized in 'problematic' welding. I had to pay a bunch for their services but the results were stunning. I gave them a chipped sear and they returned a trigger just needing finishing and hardening. The bead of the weld was just slightly wider than the sear. I called many welding shops and one recommended Advanced Welding in Mountain View, CA.

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Mike Maher #283

Thanks Mike. I will add that one to the list.

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Gary
SWCA 2515