I'm trying to identify this old top break that's part of our local history museum collection. It looks like .30 or .32 caliber and the only identifying number I can find is on the bottom of the grip.

Any help would be appreciated!

Attached Images

	Left-1.jpg (53.1 KB, 111 views)
	Bottom-1.jpg (59.6 KB, 98 views)
	Right-1.jpg (58.6 KB, 111 views)
	Top-1.jpg (32.2 KB, 78 views)

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NRA, ISRA, SAF, GOA, GSL

I believe your gun is one of the variants of the New Model #3. You need to measure the cylinder length and chamber diameter if you don't find a cartridge that chambers. These guns were chambered for 17 or so different cartridges, with .44 Russian being standard. Someone more knowledgeable will be along shortly.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

This S&W is a New Model # 3 Target in caliber 32/44, made Feb 14, 1887. A small production run of 2930 guns were made in this caliber and another run of 1413 were made in .38/44 caliber. The guns were made between 1887 to 1910 and intended for the target shooting fraternity. Both cartridges were specially designed for these guns and any original ammunition is very hard to come by today. The serial number you see on the butt, 315, should also appear on the rear of the barrel between the "ears", on the bottom of the barrel latch, on the rear face of the cylinder and on the back side of the right grip panel. Ed.

Thank you! This is good news. Any information I can get on it's provenance is a big help.

It's been in the collection for quite a while and no one has ever been able to identify it until I came along.

Next step is to see if there's any chance of getting a letter for it.

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NRA, ISRA, SAF, GOA, GSL

Ed, did the NM#3 targets have target sights?

SaintsDad, once you get an historian's letter, you can request a documentation search by the Historical Foundation. That might produce additional provenance, particularly if you know who donated the gun.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

What is the current process to get a letter? When I looked in the sticky it says no inquiries until 2016 and there's no link to the request document.

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NRA, ISRA, SAF, GOA, GSL

The sticky is out of date. Go here and print the letter request. Send it in with $50 and you should receive your letter within a month (recent turnaround). They are asking that only one request be sent per submittal.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Guy, Yes, All NM#3 Target guns had Target sights, in the series produced for the .32/44 and .38/44 guns. Many other NM#3s in the regular production also had target sights, but were not in the special calibers of the .32/44 and .38/44. The target sights were rather primitive by today's standards, and the rear sight was technically adjustable, if you had patience.
SaintsDad, The factory historical letter will tell you when the gun was shipped, to where and in what configuration, as shown on the original invoice for the gun. Most of S&W shipment were to their distributors, not to individuals, but sometimes you get lucky with target models as they were often special ordered by a shooter and the records may record the shooter's name. Does your Museum have an acquisition record for the gun, with a donor's identity that can be back tracked ? Ed.

Unfortunately the museum records aren't very clear. At this point we don't know much other than when and who donated it. No way to know if it was family or not. The records are pretty bad and I'm helping to inventory and identify the whole collection. Our town history goes back to 1834 so record keeping is a bit spotty.

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NRA, ISRA, SAF, GOA, GSL

Ed, the gun I see pictured does not have target sights. I suppose that doesn't mean it's not chambered for 32 / 44. But I would be skeptical.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

It is chambered for 32. I measured it yesterday.

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NRA, ISRA, SAF, GOA, GSL

There are various .32 centerfire caliber rounds, of course. The .32/44 Gallery cartridge has a case diameter of .346 in. and a .32 S&W round is .336 in. .32-20 WCF is .326 in and will usually chamber in a .32/44 cylinder. All S&W NM#3 Targets of the .32/44 and .38/44 production lack a rebounding hammer feature. Most regular NM#3 Targets have a rebounding hammer. The subject gun has the half moon front sight , usually seen on non-target guns, but not always, The photo is not that clear, but it looks to me like the rear sight is the target style adjustable sight. .32/44 targets came in two cylinder lengths, 1 7/16ths in. and 1 9/16ths in. Subject gun should be the 1 7/16ths cylinder. So, SaintsDad, does the gun have a rebounding hammer, or not ? Ed.

Guy,

While I agree it's hard to see in the Photos...The Revolver does indeed have Target Sights...At least on the Rear!!

To explain...The Earliest Production 32-44 Targets...Of which this is one...Had a "Fixed" Target Sight on the Rear!! Meaning there was no provision for Elevation or Windage Adjustment...See Attached Photo!!

Attached Images

NM #3 Rare Fixed Rear Target Sight 286.jpg (52.2 KB, 53 views)

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Masterpiece

Yep, our revolver has the same rear sight.

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NRA, ISRA, SAF, GOA, GSL

I haven't measured the cylinder. I'm going to be at the museum this weekend working on the collection so I'll do the measurement. I'm not familiar with a rebounding hammer so you'd have to fill me in on what to look for.

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NRA, ISRA, SAF, GOA, GSL

Ok. I could not see that in the pictures.

If your gun has a rebounding hammer, the nose of the firing pin will retract back into the hammer nose bushing after firing. With the hammer fully down, if you can see the firing pin nose sticking out of the bushing, it is not rebounding.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Thanks, I'll look for that on Saturday.

I've filled out the letter request and gave it to our Director to send to S&W. Any further info they can provide would be great.

As a side, we also have a Colt 1851 Navy in .36 caliber that was manufactured in 1859. I talked with the archives folks at Colt this morning and unfortunately they don't have any info prior to 1861. But at least I know what it is.

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NRA, ISRA, SAF, GOA, GSL

Howdy

To be just a bit more specific, with a rebounding hammer when the hammer falls it will automatically retract slightly pulling the firing pin back into the recoil shield. With the trigger pulled back you can push the hammer forward with your thumb and it will retract when you release the thumb pressure. However do not try to force the hammer forward if the trigger is not depressed as you may break something. The mechanism for the rebounding hammer was fairly delicate and a sometimes it no longer functions properly.

Here are some photos of the mechanism of the New Model #3.

In this first photo I am simulating the position of the hammer at the moment a cartridge fires. I have pulled the trigger and pushed the hammer forward. You can see the sear (the upper tip of the trigger) is clear of the hammer.





In this photo I have released the hammer and the trigger has wedged it backwards, with the sear planted in a notch in the hammer. Although this was intended as a safety device, it is not very robust and a strong blow to the hammer spur would probably break something off, allowing the gun to fire if a live cartridge is under the hammer.





This is a photo of the standard 'non-target' rear sight usually installed on this model. The rear sight is the two little ears projecting up at the front of the barrel latch.

This is great info, thanks. I'm working on the collection this morning and will take some additional pictures and check the hammer action. I also need to measure the cylinder.

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NRA, ISRA, SAF, GOA, GSL

SaintsDad,

You can measure the Cylinder Length if you care to do so...Although with the highest degree of certainty you're going to find it's the Short (1 7/16" Cyl.)...Which is the Correct Length for an Early NM#3 32/44 Target...Just thought I'd save you a bit of time!!

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Masterpiece

Just got back and can report the cylinder is 1 7/16" but the hammer didn't rebound. I didn't have a screwdriver to remove the side cover so I don't know if it's broken or not. Next time I go I'll need to remove the cover and take a look.

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NRA, ISRA, SAF, GOA, GSL

SaintDad,

Here again you can pull the Sideplate if you wish...Although being Your Revolver was originally produced exclusively as a Target Model...The NM#3 Target Models originally came factory-equipped with Non-Rebounding Hammers so there's really no need to do so...That is unless you you're inquisitive as to the workings of the Lockwork!!

Also...Just so you know...With all the info you've provided...You can now be well assured...With the possible exception of the Frt. Sight Blade...Your Revolver is indeed a "Completely Correct" Early NM#3 Target Model chambered for the 32/44 Target Cartridge!!

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Masterpiece

This is great. We should be sending off the letter Form this week and that should finish things up.

Now to work on the 20 other items in the collection! Some really old stuff.

A huge thank you to you, opoefc, wiregrassguy and driftwood johnson!

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NRA, ISRA, SAF, GOA, GSL