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07-27-2016, 12:33 AM
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Top break ID help please
Hi there, I'm new to the forum and this is my first post so bear with me. I just inherited this old top break but need help identifying what exactly I have. It was in really rough shape when I got it. I have it cleaned up now but still can't make out a serial #. On the bottom of the grip there appears to be a three digit number starting with 7 but that's all I can tell for sure. The barrel measures 5-3/4", it has fixed sights, strain screw, butt swivel, and hammer. Let me know if you need more info. Thanks
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07-27-2016, 12:36 AM
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Another pic
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07-27-2016, 07:30 AM
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I'm fairly certain that this isn't a Smith & Wesson. It may be chambered in one of the common Smith & Wesson calibers, but it's likely made by one of S&W's competitors like Iver Johnson, Harrington & Richardson, or the like.
The finish looks to be completely worn off (was some sort of wire brush taken to it?) and I see a lot of empty screw and pin holes, so I'm thinking that this is a parts gun at best. Since it came to you from family you may just want to keep it as is as a heirloom.
Mike
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07-27-2016, 08:55 AM
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It is one or another of the vast sea of European knockoffs of the early S&W Double Action. Probably made in Belgium or Spain.
Low dollar value to start with, it is incomplete and likely to remain the Family Paper Weight. Sorry.
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07-27-2016, 08:57 AM
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Thanks Mike. Yes all of the finish has been removed. When I got it it was totally rusted and seized up, I soaked it in vinegar and then scrubbed by hand until it was clean. I know it's in rough shape and missing all of the screws and pins but I think I'll still make a project out of it.... Whatever it is ha.
Jon.
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07-27-2016, 08:59 AM
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Don't be sorry. I never value my guns by what there worth to others, I can never bring myself to sell them anyway haha. Thanks for the help guys.
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07-27-2016, 09:10 AM
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Just for my own education though can you tell me how you determined that it's not a smith and Wesson? Thanks
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07-27-2016, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon166nt
Just for my own education though can you tell me how you determined that it's not a smith and Wesson? Thanks
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The outline of the gun doesn't match anything that Smith & Wesson made. The basic top latch design was copied pretty shamelessly throughout the later half of the 19th century, but the Smith & Wesson guns had lines and contours that didn't vary a whole lot in the time that they were produced.
To be sure of this I flipped through one of my well-illustrated reference books. Sure enough, none of the guns matched what you showed in the photos.
Mike
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07-27-2016, 09:46 AM
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Welcome to the Forum. I purchased a Belgium made 44 DA years ago, knowing it was a foreign copy, but the holster rig made me buy it. It does function and I shoot it occasionally. I am posting pictures of that gun along with a S&W 44 DA for comparison. Your best bet is to find some good photos of an original 44 DA and make your observations.
To me the first thing I notice when looking at a copy is the hammer. The Belgium guns often show a large oversized hammer as compared to a S&W. Other observations are front sight is often placed well back of the muzzle, no double set of cylinder notches, wrong shaped trigger guard attached with screws, wrong shape butt-frame, and the placement of screws is different than a S&W. The list can go on with many more differences, but maybe an overall comparison should also include the quality of manufacture. My 44 DA copy is much more crudely manufactured than any S&W ever made. Workmanship, fit, action, etc. are all inferior to the real deal.
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07-27-2016, 10:57 AM
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This one is pretty close. As can be seen the copiers were pretty shameless about markings. This particular copy came from a Russian Officer who ended up fighting for the Whites in the Civil War. I got it from the family who ended up in Upstate NY.
Russian officers were required to purchase their own side arms - swords, pistols/revolvers etc. Most of the revolvers offered by the Officer Supply stores were Liege or Spanish copies, although there are ads for original S&Ws.
DSCN3523a.jpgDSCN3524a.jpgDSCN3526a.jpgDSCN3529a.jpg
Note the Liege proof on the cylinder face.
SW_ad.jpg
An ad from the turn of the century- it says "Revolver system Smith and Wesson" but not manufctured by S&W.
Joe
Last edited by jleiper; 07-27-2016 at 10:59 AM.
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07-27-2016, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jleiper
. . . As can be seen the copiers were pretty shameless about markings . . .
Joe
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You are right about that, plus they had little to no idea what they were stamping on these Belgium copies. "SCHOFIELD 44 S&W CTGE"
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07-27-2016, 04:52 PM
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"...I think I'll still make a project out of it...."
It should keep you busy for a few years.
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07-28-2016, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
"...I think I'll still make a project out of it...."
It should keep you busy for a few years.
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I guess we'll see.....
Thanks for all the info everyone, I appreciate it.
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