My brother and I have inherited a Smith and Wesson Revolver that Roy Jinks of Smith and Wesson identified to be one of 200 nickel coated revolvers sold to the US government in 1871. It has the serial number 2035. And I quote, in part, from the authenticity letter we received from Mr Jinks.
"We have researched your Smith & Wesson Model 3 American First Model, United States Government Contract, caliber .44 S&W American, in company records which indicate that your handgun,with serial number 2035, was sold on March 16, 1871 and shipped to United States Government, National Armory, Springfield, MA.
The records indicates that this revolver was one of the 1000
units shipped to the United States Government. This revolver was shipped with an 8 inch barrel, nickel finish, and smooth walnut grips. The shipment contain 800 revolvers in blue finish and 200 with the nickel finish. The mark that you observed on top of the barrel is the remainder of the US property marking. This revolver is an important collectors' item."

We have no desire to keep this antique and would be interested in selling it. We are looking for advice on it's apparent value and how we would go about selling it.

Thank you

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Wow. Just wow. Another owner of one of those was Texas Jack Omahundro, pal of Buffalo Bill and Wild Bill Hickok. But his had a couple notches on it. What a fine piece of history.

Very cool. Wish the pics were better, but I'm curious what the experts say.

You could put it on gunbroker.com and let the market find a value for it. These are quite rare and the ones that I've seen sold sell in the low five figures.

Guy

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

You might look into one of the higher end firearms auction houses such as Rock Island.

Wow. That is an interesting piece of history and the letter gives it the provenance necessary to validate that history. I think you and your brother will be very surprised when you find out what that pistol is worth. In the meantime, don't be leaving it on the coffee table, workbench or kitchen counter.

I'll bid $100.

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James Redfield
LM #497

I would offer it for sale in the classifieds section of this forum.

You need to contact a large auction house such as James D. Julia to get the most $$ for this:

Rare Firearms

I have had a request for up close photos of the US markings and barrel stamp for this revolver. Hope these help all of the interested!

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Hello Grampy, just sit on it for awhile. If you and your brother are in agreement. If there is no urgency. The nickel finish is the tell. Some where I read that some Indian Police and/or Scouts carried these guns? It is a beauty. Dont be in a hurry to sell for a fraction of what it is worth. Most importantly, dont clean it. Just a soft cotton rag and gun oil. A good wipe down. You have the Model 3 guys , drooling right now.
I know, Im one. Fair value? I dont know from a couple of pics. Its your gun and good luck. Best, Mike PS, Dont clean it.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

The U.S. Americans are a significant collectors piece however, condition is premier.

Your photos are ok but this really requires a professional photographer to capture all the details. While truly, this requires a physical inspection by a knowledgeable, accredited expert. There are more markings in addition to the U.S. on barrel rib.

I cannot tell for certain but the hammer axis pin (where it protrudes through the frame) seems sanded flat. If so, that is evidence of a refinish that was not done by the factory.

The more original and better condition, the higher the value. In the pre-internet days, I would report to Col Pate (as many of us did) on serial numbers and condition / configuration (if barrel clipped etc) of U.S. Americans and other select U.S. Military revolvers we actually found and / or examined.

There were several I had encountered with mixed numbers reporting serial numbers and condition when I encountered one, to Col. Charles Pate. I owned 1 of the mixed ID numbered Americans (all of those mixed numbers being among other serial numbers listed by Col Pate of US Americans).

You should have this U.S. American inspected and appraised by an authority of your choice who has intimate knowledge of this, specific issue revolver.

I believe that the unanimous choice of serious collectors would be Col. Charles Pate, USAF retired (he wrote "the" book on S&W Americans based on his 70+ years of experience), Ed Cornett and of course Roy Jinks, plus a select few other members of the S&WCA, who would all be at the very top of that list of those experts. You would be hard pressed to find anyone with a fraction of the experience and knowledge of the fore mentioned.

You will, however, find a bunch of tire-kickers and wow-ers that will fuss and say and do near anything ... except ... reach in their right front pocket for the money.

While the select group of collectors of this fine older S&W lessens every year, it is still one on the check list of "must haves" for us older collectors.

Although these older or more serious collectors would likely seek the higher condition grades, your does have value. That value can only be determined after a physical examination as the difference in percentage grades could equate to 100s or 1000s of dollars difference.

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

and I raise you one !

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

OK, $150.00

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James Redfield
LM #497

Model3sw is 100% correct. Have someone who has the expertise look at it and Value it.

What I really like is that you would like to sell it here; it's here you will be able to pass it on to a worthy Custodian. Ok, you might get more at one of the High-End Auction Houses and I think common sense would have told you that before even posting.

Someone here will cherish that Gun and the History in it and really that is the best possible outcome. These are Historical Artifacts and they should be in the hands of people who fully appreciate what they are. There are some things even more important than the holy Dollar.

YES, please post it for sale here! I, for one, would cherish it!

His problem with posting it for sale here is that he needs to know a reasonable value as no "auctions" are allowed.

So far everybody is dancing around without naming a price for him to sell it for......

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

I am very new to collecting S&W. Just to see the pics and hear you guys talk about the history is a real inspiration for me. Thanks much for posting. WOW!!!!

I will take a "stab" at valuation. I could be way off as these don't come up for sale often. My best "guess" would be, in a private transaction, $3,000 to $4,000 (see "Edit", below). Prices in references quote RETAIL and this is a price that would be unrealistic for the seller to expect to get. This firearm does have condition issues, but it is a U.S. American and is in the list of known U.S. American serial numbers. What the seller might want to do is try and sell on the forum Dutch auction style and see what happens. Perhaps list it at $5,000 and gradually lower the asking price until it sells.

Edit: I really hate to "nickel and dime" this gun, but, after researching past sales at James Julia, $2,500 to $3,500 might be more realistic:

Lot 2337, Spring 2010, serial number 1523, in MUCH better condition, significant bluing present, U.S. marked, preauction estimate of $10 to $15K. Did not sell...

Lot 2342, Spring 2010, serial number 1522, U.S. marked, in MUCH better condition, very good, sold at $4025.

Lot 2194, Spring 2009, number 496, U.S. marked, very fine , 30 to 40% thin flaking blue on barrel, 50 to 60% on frame, hammer has 75% original case colours, etc, sold for $7,762.50.

There is one other martially marked one listed and it is serial number 2065. However, it's in exceptional condition for this model firearm and brought $19,550 in the Fall of 2007. A bit like comparing apple to oranges, in this case...

In summary, these don't come up for sale Often and any recent sales represented firearms in better condition than this one. $2,500 to $3,500 seems realistic.

Uh? A buyer at a high end auction house will cherish it no less than someone here,and will probably be someone from here. (not to mention that guns sold here must have a fixed price,and this one deserves a well promoted auction)The OP might not be aware of high end auctions that deal in guns,so it's a wrong assumption to think that it would automatically cross his mind before posting here.He wouldn't be here if he had all of the answers.Plenty of folks in the hobby are unacquainted with Julia,and the other houses.

You're entitled to your opinion. The High-End Auction Houses also attract the folks who are simply investing for profit as well as the collectors who are in it for slightly more noble reasons. OP did enough research to find us here so is no doubt more than capable of seeking out where he's likely to realise maximum $$ but instead came to us knowing there would be folks here who will be interested. That says to me he wants to see the Gun go to a worthy Custodian and the all consuming (for some ) $$ are not the be all and end all of existence. If this piece of History 'deserves' anything; it is to be in the hands of someone who fully appreciates what it truly is. I know I would rather buy something like this from someone who actually wants it to go into the right hands rather than someone who sees nothing more than money in its value. It certainly makes for a better story than ''It cost me a fortune at an Auction.'' I have some pretty heartwarming stories of guys who actually knocked off hundreds of dollars to sell me a Gun because they felt I was the person who should get it. This even happened right here no time ago. There is more to life than what we can squeeze out of it; sometimes giving a little back makes the place a little more of a worthwhile place to be. Having said all that; it's O.P's gun and he can do as he pleases with it; I'm not laying on a Guilt Trip if it comes up for sale/Auction wherever...I was simply commending the idea of giving us first pick as it were.

Agreed! It is sad that some value objects for what they can squeeze out of them rather than for the true historical artifacts that they are. I, too, hope the current owner gives us a crack at this one first!

Personally, I think it should be sitting in a museums so the public can cherish seeing it. But that's just my 2 cents.

I would bet that you can go to the Museum in Springfield, MA and see one behind glass.

If interest continues to rise, I may have to raise my $150 offer to $200.

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James Redfield
LM #497

Let's assume for the moment the seller chose a brick and mortar auction house to sell his item. Let's also assume (although I'm having trouble with this one) the B&M house (RIA/Julia/whoever) sells the item for (pick a number). I need to have someone (anyone) explain to me why this number will surpass a number obtained on Gun Broker. Then I need to have an explanation of how/why the seller will be satisfied with this sale price (LESS THE B&M HOUSE'S COMMISSION---15-20%) when GB's commission is VASTLY LESS). Someone once said "Do the math!".

Now let's talk about protecting one's self in the clinches----with a reserve. How much does that cost at a B&M house (if ithe bidding doesn't reach the reserve)------10% of the reserve amount? Hmmmmmm?!! How much does it cost at GB------nothing---something? (I don't know----everything I've sold (not much) in the past several years has been sold by David Carroll----at top dollar----for not much commission.)

I have NEVER had a satisfactory experience with a B&M house---either as a seller or a buyer. That said, I admire the business they're in. Where else do you see a 30-35% margin with no significant investment in inventory?

A wise man named ED should be along directly. Pay attention to what he has to say. He too has been there and done that---a whole lot more than I have. Pay SPECIAL attention to anything he may have to say about doing business with RIA. You'll be happy if you heed his words!!

Ralph Tremaine

And up there where I said I'd never had a satisfactory experience with a B&M house-------I lied. My very first one was with Bonham(sp?)---in San Fransisco(??)---and it was letter perfect!! I should have quit while I was ahead.

Just curious, has any one who has posted, other than the owner, seen or held the gun? If the hammer stud is flat, there could have been an Armory fix or a frontier gun shop, or somebody else right? I had a nickel gun like that for years and it turned out to be a Scout gun.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

I really, really dislike gunbroker! How about just offering it to those of us on the forum first at a high-fair price and revising downward until it sells or a "best offer" near to the seller's price is agreed upon? Since I said it seems to be worth $2,500 to $3,500, if it doesn't sell at $2,500, it goes to Gunbroker? Oh, by the way, I will prevent that from happening. Here is my offer of $2,500 for this firearm, barring anything drastically inapperent not depicted in the current photographs.

I guess that blows my $150 out of the water.

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James Redfield
LM #497

Here's the problem: guns like this get serious saliva from collectors. However, just like house & vehicle "flippers" on TV they buy low & sell high & there's nothing wrong with that. It just that it's pitiful to see some wrap that up in sanctimonious BS. The OP has the right to get the most money he can from this and to do that he will almost invariably have to assign it to an esteemed auction house where it can be professionally handled and where collectors are forced to show real money if they want the gun.

Without pointing fingers there are few collectors of any high end antiques that I trust when it comes to money. Self interest often "clouds" sound advice for the other party.

I would damn near wager a NY steak dinner that the OP has already received some "low ball" PM's.

What kind of steak? I'm in.

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James Redfield
LM #497

I think this owner is smart enough to get a formal, real-world, evaluation of this one. As much as there is fuss and talk here, it's not clear what the condition and / or originality factually is.

Many of these that surface had been stored in a garage or shed, or someplace awful. Many of them do not function properly, if at all. Refinishes, and more so, poor quality refinishes as well as sanded and / or buffed, mixed numbered, US Americans considerably outnumber the few (even lesser percentage of blue) original models.

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Has anybody seen this or held this gun yet other than the OP?
I would like to view the gun under a glass and light.
Really only true test. Pics hide a lot of things.
Best, mike

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

I think auction is the best way to go with a piece that has the interest this one has. Most houses will waive the BUY IN fee (if it does not sell) and discount the selling rate if asked. The seller might be advised to sell here for quick cash, as it can take months for a sale to occur and 40 business days afterward to be paid - if anyone can step up to the plate. He seems inclined that way from his last post. But, at least he knows his options now.

Wow, a nickel US pops up from grandpa's sock drawer.

Sure there are condition issues but if that's all original I think it would easily be at least a $6k pistol. That's not a 2nd Model, it's one of 200 and US issued in 1871 as the first cartridge sidearm...

It is a rare bird; no doubt about it.

It's lost it's Nickel but the Metal looks alright.

As somebody pointed out; none of us have seen it and what you can tell by a Photograph is pretty limited.

I hope OP does get back to us even just to satisfy our curiosity once the Gun has been properly appraised.

There are probably even limited precedents at Auction for one of these 200. Anyone seen one of these go under the Hammer?

See my post #19, above. My research gives an idea of what some of these have brought, in the past, and suggests that the value of this one in this condition might be $2,500 to $3,500.

I'd want to see some post 2012 auction numbers as your data is extremely outdated.

Several of those auctions are from the 2009-2010 time frame with the economic slowdown in full swing.

I think the major collectors who noted price range of $2,500 to $3,500 are likely in the ball park.

The one post with older auction sales or recorded sales is much too far out of date and in different economic times. Then, we really don't know the condition of those that sold at those prices. A physical inspection by a knowledgeable appraiser is the way to go here.

I have no horse in this race as I am not a potential buyer of this one. I have owned 2 in like condition and, in turn, sold them because both were not original. One was terribly sanded with coarse sandpaper and had a poor refinish. The other just about as bad but with mixed parts.

Since then I have passed on several others that were just awful a few with clipped barrels ... all of which I reported present configuration, condition and serial numbers to Col. Charles Pate.

I seek a U.S. American in original condition, with matching components, even if only remnants of ORIGINAL finish remain ... knowing full aware that I'd have to pay a much higher price for it.

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

When coming up with a value, I used the best available data. Yes, it dates from several years ago, but I don't think prices have escalated much over the last few years. First, while maybe not in a recession, many Americans are not financially well off. Times aren't much better than 6 or 7 years ago, despite what one political party claims. (Hint: they aren't exactly pro-2A!). Also, there are increasingly fewer buyers of this sort of stuff. Few millennials and Gen-Xers collect this stuff ( I am one of the few).

Good point. I'm an (Early Model) GenXer myself and don't know any others who Collect Antique Firearms and definitely no Millennials. It's generally the Baby Boomers and the few remaining Pre War People who are affluent enough and lived in times when these Treasures were a lot more affordable. While things are nowhere near as bad as they were eight years ago; Economies have not really recovered anything like fully and people are generally not spending. The lesser Models possibly have picked up a bit in price as can be seen on the Auction and Sales Sites; Guns many here will value at a couple of hundred $$ not uncommonly going for double that. Perhaps a few GenXers starting to dabble but definitely not willing or able to lay out the thousands required for the Prime Collectables.
We could even see a rebalance of Prices as the Pre War and Boomers cash in their Collections or drop off the twig and the kids liquidate inherited assets. There are those who are trying hard to push up prices on lesser Models but for the most part they just hang around forever on the Websites.
Supply and Demand rule all Markets and when demand is low; Prices must reflect this or a stagnant Market results.

Thats all true but if I was selling an antique watch, guitar, automobile....ect, I would not be using sales data from 2009 to set my price

Sometimes you can only use the data available to you. And, prices now do not necessarily mean that they are greater than those achieved in 2009. With firearms probably so, but watch reruns of Antiques Roadshow from several years ago with updated current values and note that not everything has appreciated!