smith & wesson frontier?

mike christensen · #1 10-14-2016, 09:59 PM

this will be as short as I can make it. history of the pistol my grandfather brought it with him from Texas to Kansas in 1920 or 21. Its a top break. would like some more info on pistol. top of barrel reads Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass USA Pat'd Jan 17 of 24.65 July 11 65 Aug 24 69 July 25 71 Dec2 75? May 11 of 25 1880. bottom of grip serial number is 37038. I believe its a Frontier model and possibly double action. cartriage is 1 7/16 inches and barrel is 5 1/2. Absolutely no play in the "break, cartriage rotates with no play. my problem with pistol is a missing screw showing in picture and will only "fire" is hammer is pulled halfway back. firing pen is in great shape, sights are original front and back. mother of pearl grips. Need screw and a reputable restorer name and address. also the trigger action will not work without hammer being pulled back. I have pulled trigger and it worked but no longer

shouldazagged · #2 10-14-2016, 10:59 PM

Welcome to the forum.

I can't answer your questions, but there are folks here who can and will.

deadin · #3 10-14-2016, 11:00 PM

Is the 1 7/16th the cylinder length? If so it is a .44 Russian. All of the Frontiers (44/40) have 1 9/16ths cylinders. With that serial number it should have a 1 9/16th cylinder but is still a 44 Russian. (The Frontiers were in a range of 1 to 15,340.)

opoefc · #4 10-14-2016, 11:06 PM

Welcome to theForum. Your gun's photo is not clear enough to tell what screw you are concerned about. This model was made in 4,5,6 and 6 1/2 in. barrel lengths, not in 5 1/2 in. (Measure the barrel from the front of the cylinder. It looks like a 6 in. barrel ). Your problems can probably be helped with a through cleaning of the action, as there's 100+ yrs. of crud, dirt and misc. critters residing inside. Maybe even solved. If, after a good cleaning of the action, it still has problems, you can remove the side plate and observe the action cycle and perhaps spot any broken parts. You say you think it's a Frontier Model? If so, it will chamber 44-40 rounds. If not, only S&W 44 Russian ammo. The ATF considers this model as an antique, as S&W said all forms were made before 1899, however many were not assembled and shipped until as late as WW1 era. Nice Family heirloom! Ed.

JSR III · #5 10-14-2016, 11:11 PM

Quote:

cartriage rotates with no play

Welcome to the forum.

Not sure what you mean by cartriage rotates unless you mean "cylinder". The closest thing to cartriage is cartridge which is a case, powder, a primer and a bullet.

Don't think that it is a Frontier as their serial number range was 1 -2072 according to my books. Most of the new model three's didn't reach as high as 37038. Do you know the caliber?

PS: Just looked at the book again and with those patent dates it is most likely a .44 Double Action First Model. Manufactured 1881-1913. Serial range of 1 - 54,668. An interesting note says that the early versions had a cylinder length of 1 7/16" whereas later guns were 1 9/16" for serial numbers above 15340. Your gun appears to have the shorter cylinder but the higher serial number. Gotta love S&W's.

mike christensen · #6 10-15-2016, 08:10 AM

new here and haven't figured out how all works. the holster is a US Calvary dated 1918 and is not the holster for the pistol. its what my grandfather carried it in. hope the pictures answer any questions especially on the missing screw? it is 1 7/16 cylinder and my bad a 5" barrel. where to get the missing screw and a place to restore pistol if worth it. would like to fire it also its a double action, pulled the trigger and the action worked twice, but cylinder did not advance

mike christensen · #7 10-15-2016, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike christensen

new here and haven't figured out how all works. the holster is a US Calvary dated 1918 and is not the holster for the pistol. its what my grandfather carried it in. hope the pictures answer any questions especially on the missing screw? it is 1 7/16 cylinder and my bad a 5" barrel. where to get the missing screw and a place to restore pistol if worth it. would like to fire it also its a double action, pulled the trigger and the action worked twice, but cylinder did not advance

measured again I'm blind it is a 6" barrel

deadin · #8 10-15-2016, 09:21 AM

The part you need is called a "Hammer Stud Nut".... It's probably going to have to come from a parts gun. (If you can find one.)

I'm a little confused with the 1 7/16ths cylinder on a frame with the given serial number. (It should be 1 9/16ths.)
You might check out the serial numbers to see if you have a parts gun.
Here is a picture of where to check: (They all should match the one on the bottom of the butt.)

glowe · #9 10-15-2016, 12:55 PM

Welcome to the Forum. It is almost a certainty that you have a 44 Russian DA. How is it that you determined it was a 44-40? The 44 Double Action Frontier came only in 44-40, while the production of the 44 Double Action was in 44 Russian. There were actually two sets of overlapping serial numbers for the 44 Double Action revolver. As said above, the largest was the 44 Russian DA; 1 - 54,668 and the 44-40 DA Frontier; 1 - 15,340.

Those gold medallion pearl stocks are very nice and could well be original to the gun. Many still have a penciled serial number written on the inside of the right stock. This is, perhaps the most difficult top-break S&W to work on, mainly because it has more small parts than its single action counterpart, the New Model 3, and parts are very difficult to find. The missing nut will not affect the action of the revolver, but does hold the sideplate secured to the frame. This revolver should be capable of firing in double and single action modes, so there is likely something else wrong with the gun, so check out cleaning as Ed stated and look for missing or broken parts. Internal parts also do wear and can malfunction just because of internal wear to the hammer, sear, etc. If you need more help, take off the sideplate and post some photos of the insides in full cock and with the hammer as rest. Use a rubber or wood mallet to remove the sideplate. Hold the revolver by the barrel and solidly tap the butt frame with the pearls removed, and the sideplate will pop right off. Good luck.

mike christensen · #10 10-15-2016, 02:57 PM

Glowe all numbers check out with the serial number on the butt, I did copy the serial number wrong it is 37938 on butt. cylinder 37938, top latch break 37938. Also verified the length of cylinder as 1 7/16 that's one little hickey doo before 1/2. that's all I can do for now. really just wanting to know when the gun was made and maybe where it was first sold, and is it worth restoring

mike christensen · #11 10-15-2016, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadin

The part you need is called a "Hammer Stud Nut".... It's probably going to have to come from a parts gun. (If you can find one.)

I'm a little confused with the 1 7/16ths cylinder on a frame with the given serial number. (It should be 1 9/16ths.)
You might check out the serial numbers to see if you have a parts gun.
Here is a picture of where to check: (They all should match the one on the bottom of the butt.)

the cylinder is 1 7/16. trying to read all numbers with a magnifying glass which isn't the best one out there have found out that after a careful look see. the serial number is 37938 and all numbers on cylinder and top latch match the serial number of 37938. Now to find a parts gun

glowe · #12 10-15-2016, 03:08 PM

As said above, all frames were manufactured before 1899, but the best we can do is estimate the ship date around 1899 - 1901. You can get a factory letter for $75 that will tell you the exact ship date and where it went, but most went to major distributors or hardware stores. A link to the factory letter request form is below.

Smith & Wesson Collectors Association

These guns do not sell for big money unless in very high original condition. If you are intending to keep it, I would clean it and wipe it down occasionally with an oily rag and enjoy your family heirloom. After all, it was last in the hands of your grandfather who probably liked it just the way it was and remains today.

JSR III · #13 10-15-2016, 06:41 PM

Just to add, any restoration will DESTROY collector value to most serious collectors. Many will also say, your gun, your decision and that is very true. Just offering some thoughts for you to consider.