For all you (us) firearms collectors and enthusiasts .... here is one you have to read carefully. Post comments freely ...

If attorneys of past were sharp enough to file lawsuits there may have been no Smith & Wesson as we know it now.

S&W may have become bankrupt after a lawsuit by the family of a Doctor that accidentally shot himself with a "new" Smith & Wesson .38 Safety hammerless, while in a retail establishment examining it for possible purchase. The revolver that it is impossible to fire accidentally.

I first found this story many years back when searching the family lineage of my life long buddy / pilot of the same family name. Today it took about an hour for me to locate this story by ordinary search methods.

I came upon many Havis family names that fought in the Civil War, all but one serving for the Confederacy.

Background:

An experienced firearms expert, Capt. Minor Havis of the Confederate Havis Battery, accidentally shoots himself with the "new" 38 calibre Smith and Wesson "SAFETY" revolver, in November 1889. at age 60. This is one of the same guns that were subjects of sensationalized ads of the period touted as "impossible to accidentally discharge"

(reference link below)

so, here goes:

Death of Dr. Havis

"At about twelve o'clock Tuesday night, November 26th, Dr. M. W. Havis died at his residence in Perry, from the effects of a wound accidentally received last Friday morning.
The interment took place at Evergreen Cemetery yesterday afternoon. Dr. Havis having been an honorary member of the Perry Rifles, and that command being honorary members of the 1st Ga. Reg. Veterans' Association, of which he was an active and esteemed member, he was buried with military honors.

Six ex-members of the Southern Rights Battery, of which company Dr. Havis was Captain, acted by request as pall-bearers."

The fatal wound occurred at the hardware store of Hugh Lawson located on Carroll Street in the doctor's hometown of Perry, Georgia. Dr. Havis had been inspecting a new 38 caliber hammerless Smith & Wesson pistol; the pistol accidentally fired .

"the bullet entered the person of Dr. Havis, about an inch to the left of the spine, passing through the bone near the hip bone. Dr. Havis then started to walk home, but stopped at the post office. There in a short while Drs. J. B. Smith, D. R. Mann, H. M. Holtzclaw, L. A. Felder, of Perry and Dr. Joseph Palmer, of Oak Lawn attended him. The bullet was probed for, but not extracted, though ascertained to be in the abdomenal cavith (sic). Afterward, about an hour after the wound was received, he walked about 300 yards to his resinence(sic) accompanied by the physicians and several other friends.

At first the wound was recognized as a serious one, though a fatal result was not anticipated. Dr. Havis contended that the bullet was in his bowels, but he was convinced to the contrary.

At home he was constantly attended by the physicians, with the utmost care and skill, and several of his closet friends were with him during each day. At night two doctors were with him.

With the deepest solicitude the people asked often about his condition, and at no time, except possibly early Monday night, was death apprehended. He slept well the latter part of that night, and at noon Tuesday it was believed, and Dr. Havis so expressed himself, that the crisis had passed and that he would recover. Drs. Smith and elder were with him Tuesday night, when at about 11 o'clock a change occurred, and at 12 he was a corpse.

Dr. Havis was 60 years old last April, had been a resident of Perry about 50 years, and began the practice of medicine about 38 years. ago.

He was a man of thorough education, exceptionally able in the knowledge and practice of his profession, and of very strong convictions. Possessed of indomitable will, he was remarkably well preserved for a man of his age. He was a man of strict integrity, with an exceeding high regard for justice. Thoroughly honest in word and deed, he was charitable always, though sometimes apparently harsh. No man we ever knew possessed the confidence and esteem of his friends in a higher degree, and all who knew him were his friends.

He was a consistent member of the Presbyterian Church, a true Christian, a good man in the highest sense. He leaves of his immediate family a heart-broken widow and a nephew, who is an adopted son. His other relatives are five sisters and their families.

The profoundest sorrow prevails, for the community loses one of its best citizens, and our people a strong and steadfast friend. The bereaved ones have the profoundest sympathy of all our people.

A good man has been called to his reward."

Reference link:

Capt. Minor W. Havis

Attached Images

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

I highly doubt Smith & Wesson would have been sued. Quote" The fatal wound occurred at the hardware store of Hugh Lawson located on Carroll Street in the doctor's hometown of Perry, Georgia. Dr. Havis had been inspecting a new 38 caliber hammerless Smith & Wesson pistol; the pistol accidentally fired ." How did it "accidentally fired". There is no such thing as an accidental shooting. It takes a deliberate act to cause any firearm to discharge. Lay a gun down and wait for it to discharge. You'll grow old waiting. There is no defense for this shooting, period.

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Don Mundell

First thoughts - it was loaded, he pointed it at his abdomen (apparently), and pulled that nice long heavy trigger all the way back while doing so. Bad safety practices...

Also, this was in the day before sterile surgical technique, and his kind but unknowing physician colleagues probably aggressively probed the entrance wound (trying to extract the bullet) and may have caused him to die from infection. President Garfield likely passed away from the same "treatment" at about that time.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I agree that guns don't go off and shoot some one with out some help from somebody, either intentionally or through a careless act and that good gun handling practices will prevent negligent discharges. But, if the same thing were to happen today there would be a flock of very willing lawyers ready to get "compensation" for the survivors. There have been many lawsuits that received awards for far less.

Lots of things have ridiculous warning labels now simply because people have successfully sued for getting injured doing something stupid with a product. I bought an axe that had a warning label. Said that this tool can cause death or serious bodily harm. Gee, who would have thought!

American Motto, I got hurt, so, somebody owes me a bunch of money.

It is the sensationalism of ALL advertising back in that day that amuses me most, not just S&W.

I did not post this with any serious consideration of a "could have been" bankrupt S&W but rather for the amusement factor.

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

One of those oddball stories that makes one wonder just how silly a person can get - and a supposedly Highly Educated Man and a 'Firearms Expert'

Did he think ''Hmm, Safety Revolver eh? - Well, I'll just see if I can shoot myself in the Gut with it....'' Then in his staunch 1880s resolve, he goes for a walk on the Town; stopping by at the local Post Office and then ambles home unconcerned about his new little lead pal nudging around in his Bowel. I'm sure it was a secondary consideration to the state of his firmly Waxed Moustache, which may have also lost some condition during his Revolver Testing.
Survives the Civil War only to die of lead poisoning from a self inflicted wound sustained at the Local Hardware; not such a grand claim to fame.

As for Vexatious Litigants; the idea that the nearest person around is somehow to blame for our misadventures is just an extension of the 'I feel the World owes me a living' idea. No doubt fostered by the Legal Industry to tide them over in quiet times. To each his own I suppose.

Sounds like a 19th century Darwin Award nominee.

Exactly Why was A New Gun @ The Store Loaded? & Why wasn't it Checked Before Handing it To The Prospective Customer? I always Check for My Own Satisfaction that any gun handed to Me is In Fact Unloaded.

I know Perry, GA. Small town, probably smaller back then.
What I find truly amazing is this guy had FOUR doctors attending him. FOUR!?!?
I'm surprised Perry had four doctors.

On litigation-
I doubt the family considered suing. They would not want it publicized that anyone in the family was THAT stupid.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Too late ?... Whats the statute of limitations for a wrongful death lawsuit ? ...ha ha ....snark

PS perhaps my 7th infantry CO. E CSA relatives can sue for injuries sustained from Yankee arms fire during the civil war ? Wink

Ok, consider this

The point of entry was "about an inch to the left of the spine," i.e. the back.

He accidentally shot himself in the back? Maybe he was twirling the revolver, or seeing how fast he could draw from his rear pocket? Or perhaps someone else shot him by accident? Note the past tense in the article where it says he "had been inspecting" the revolver.

As gmiller asked, why was the gun loaded? If folks back then were as litigious as they are today, the first one to be sued would have been the hardware store. S&W would be next as they had the deeper pockets.

The claim made regarding the safety hammer less takes into account that the arm cannot be discharged accidentally as by dropping. It can only be fired with "someones" hand on the back strap and therefore either the Dr. or one of the store employees had to have the gun in hand.

S&W never claimed that the gun wouldn't go off at all otherwise it would have been sold as a paperweight and not a firearm.

Assuming that S&W was sued, due to the comparative wealth of Messrs. Smith and Wesson and the Smith and Wesson Company, I believe that their team of lawyers would have prevailed.

At age 60 and a Dr. is it possible that due to some undisclosed illness that the good doctor committed suicide but tried to make it look like an accident????? Was there a large life insurance policy? Was he a member of the NRA and looking to cash in on a firearm related accident?

Until the time machine is invented and we can go back and take a look at these historic events, we will never know.

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James Redfield
LM #497

James
Horace Smith would not have been involved in the lawsuit. In 1889 he was 15 years removed from the firm. The Safety Hammerless was the brain child of DB.

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Don Mundell

Thanks Don. I didn't take into consideration the year and was merely answering a generic question regarding possible lawsuits.

Regardless, this is still an interesting story as this firearm had to have been in someones hand in order to fire.

I really do hope that there is a microfilm machine on the other side that will allow folks to go back and review events in their lives as well as look at historic events of their choosing.

Imagine being able to go back and look at civil war battles or see what really happened to the dinosaurs. Hope they have popcorn too.

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James Redfield
LM #497

Depending on where you go, up, or down, I think you'll have stone tablets, not microfilm machines. I know one of the locations will be devoid of lawyers!

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Don Mundell

That could be an interesting topic for another thread. There HAD to be many lawsuits brought against Smith & Wesson from inception to about 1960.

Also, others filed by S&W against other firms / companies / people beside the Rollin White patent defense cases.

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

I'm sure most of you have seen these, but for those that have not, here is some advertising from that period.




I think these period advertisements represent the mentality of the day, which unfortunately helped lead to the good doctors demise.

WB

I want to see some company run those two ads now. What a Hoot.
Lets be honest, the Doc turned around and somebody shot him. Case closed.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

May have been so but think of what truly may have occurred.

Would a Southern Gentleman and deacon of his church, who was a Civil War veteran, admit to an accidental discharge ? In the back or was he covering for someone else ?

Wording is very sketchy and evasive.

Then he could have just been a pompous, awnry, old hoot (as the article hints in nice words ) that was just so comfortable (and know-it-all) with firearms that he screwed up ?

It all yields to the literary style of the day which no one had a better handle on than Mark Twain.

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Thanks for an interesting thread. News accounts of the day were notoriously inaccurate. My reading was that the good doctor was shot in the lower abdomen. The bullet missed the spine -- accessible from the front & side as well as rear -- and lodged in his hip bone. Amazing tolerance to shock that he walked away.

Those old revolver ads posted by Singleshot are no worse than some of the car ads seen today. You just can't make anything idiot proof. Not now, not 125 years ago, not ever.
John

" accidental " shooting with a S&W.

On the 27th of November 1888 some friends gathered in the local saddle shop ( needing a new holster ?) In a small county seat town in the Arkansas river valley.

A couple of the fellows there were in law enforcement. Brothers in fact. One was the City Marshal and the other a Deputy Sheriff. The Deputy had just recieved a new S&W revolver and wanted to show it to his Brother. Unfortunately as he was showing it to him it accidentally fired............................5 times striking and killing the Marshal.

Strange tale, sure is but that's because it was based in Arkansas Politics and that can get pretty strange.

As our late friend Paul Harvey ( Son of a Tulsa Okla. PD Officer killed in the line of duty) said for the rest of the story read the book "Who shot John Clayton " by Kenneth C. Barnes.

A truly fascinating story, one a fiction writer could never invent.

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LEX ET ORDO

Somebody's finger was on the trigger.

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Only a cold warrior

I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if there was a grassy knoll nearby.

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213th FBINA

Some things haven't changed.

Sal,
This story did not mention that this "accident" occurred during normal business hours. Maybe this was a possibility (no offense or dishonor to the Captain / Doctor).
Dave
S&WCA LM #836

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This case reminds me of the murder case one of my friends defended where the estranged wife shot her cheating husband while cleaning her gun. 5 times. In the back.

I tend to believe in 99% of unintended discharges the trigger was simply pulled on a loaded chamber. Here I bet someone simply shot the good doctor in the back “testing” the safety measures in horseplay.

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Possum—The other white meat!

To think that today some politicians want people to be able to sue the gun manufacturers, because those manufacturers are most certainly solely responsible for gun injuries and deaths.

That's a lot like blaming spoons for obesity.

Thank God that keeping and bearing arms is a right enumerated in the Constitution. Unfortunately, that doesn't deter hoplophobes...foaming at the mouth wild-eyed gun-banners. Methinks that clear thinking is an uncommon virtue among our lawmakers. Ron White was quite astute when he observed that you can't fix stupid.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

"the bullet entered the person of Dr. Havis, about an inch to the left of the spine, passing through the bone near the hip bone."

It would be almost impossible for a person to shoot themselves with the result of such an entry wound.

Safety Hammerless New Departure, we may recall, was "DA" only, and has a fairly stout Spring.

Dropping it will not occasion a discharge, and even if it could, the trajectory of the entry would would not have been horizontal.

Who knows what actually happened?!

Other than, what ever it was, it was not as described in the Newspaper report.


The story makes no sense whatever.

It is purely my guess based on my 78 years of observing human behavior that the other person in the store did the deed. Probably stupidly accidental. If intentional, surely the miscreant would have aimed higher. For whatever reason, the Doc determined to cover for the shooter.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

Hi, Dave.

Are these pocket watches you show, are they reproductions or originals to the period ?

Best Regards, Sal Raimondi

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Sal,
The pocket watch movement & case is original, being manufactured by The E. Ingraham Company in April 1940. These are called "dollar watches."
The dial is a metal dial they used beginning in the late 30's. Most dollar watch dials are paper dials. The advertisement is painted on the dial and not an overlay decal, but I'm not sure it is original or added later by someone other than the manufacture. I collect dollar watches and have never seen another one with a S&W advertisement. The S&W logo etched on the back cover (again not a decal) is one I'm not sure of when S&W introduced this logo. I'm thinking this was added at a later date.
Dave

Dave, Very unique, both of them. How many dollar watches to do you have in your collection ? Any others and tyeps ?

i've been collecting pocket watches, mostly higher end movements, solid gold cases and Railroad watches for over 40 years. There are others mixed in with them too, probably a few dollar watches and 7j Last count was 140 +/-watches. For the past 30 years the values have gone up and down, year to year, like a roller coaster ride except for the extremely odd and rare models.

I'm a purist. I believe, if sold, they should be sold / transferred as they were manufactured but the dilemma of whether or not to just sell off the gold cases gnaws at me. But seems there aren't many pocket watch collectors anymore. The gold cases alone, for scrap, would bring about 4x my total investment in all of them over the years.

But I must decide, because time is getting the better of us all. Sal

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Sal,
That is one watch. A photo with the bezel off & one with it on. The dollar watches have a plastic crystal & sometimes turn a yellow color.
I also collect higher grade pocket watches, railroad, key wind & set, but nothing in the complicated or solid gold cases. They are out of my pay grade. I probably have well over 150 watches. Haven't counted in years.
Dave