Wesson Damascus Shotgun Serial #6

Gunner327 · #1 03-05-2017, 08:33 PM

Hello,
I have serial #6 of the Wesson 12-Gauge Shotguns. I am looking for any manufacturing or shipping history that may exist. Emailed S&W and they recommended I post something to our Forum. This shotgun is Gustave Young Engraved and must have been sent somewhere special. Thanks In Advance.

AlHunt · #2 03-05-2017, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner327

Hello,
I have serial #6 of the Wesson 12-Gauge Shotguns. I am looking for any manufacturing or shipping history that may exist. Emailed S&W and they recommended I post something to our Forum. This shotgun is Gustave Young Engraved and must have been sent somewhere special. Thanks In Advance.

Sorry I have no info for you but some pictures of it would be interesting. Might draw some more interest and comments, too.

Club Gun Fan · #3 03-05-2017, 10:12 PM

We have the records for Wesson shotguns. Fill out the form under downloads and send it to the address listed along with the $75.00 fee.
Don Mundell
Assistant Historian
Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation.

Skeetr57 · #4 03-06-2017, 11:05 AM

Is the gun marked with the Wesson name? Many weren't, having only the patent information. Those that weren't marked with a name have only an assembly number. All were engraved, even those not marked by name. Total production was around 250 guns in 1869-70. Roy Jinks is the expert on these, and owns a number of them.

Watchdog · #5 03-06-2017, 11:39 AM

We would love to see some photos!

opoefc · #6 03-06-2017, 02:43 PM

Welcome to the Forum. It is very unusual to find a Wesson shotgun with a serial number under 100, as it is believed production (except for prototypes, etc. ) started at serial number 100. All known guns are engraved. Do you have the case and accessories? The Wesson Firearms Co. was formed on May 27, 1867 by D.B.Wesson, Horace Smith, J.W.Storrs, Franklin Wesson and C. E. Buckland. Whether the S&W factory actually saw the manufacture of these shotguns is unknown. All guns bear the patent date Nov. 24, 1868, and by that date the production had been moved to the Hall & Buckland plant in Springfield. Production ceased in 1870 and all assets were sold. It is believed that Dexter Smith may have assembled some guns from parts later as his monogram appears on a few guns instead of D.B.Wesson's. All known guns are 12 ga. with 30 inch barrels. I once owned an 16 in barrel example, but it had been cut from the original 30 in. Various sources list serial numbers up to # 219. #215 is marked "Smith & Wesson" instead of Wesson Firearms Co. and is Gustave Young engraved. Ed.

glowe · #7 03-06-2017, 06:28 PM

There is not much out there, but it seems that Wesson's shotgun was a very important hammer doublegun that may have been instrumental in the start of the Parker Gun Company.

An entry in Best Guns, by Michael McIntosh is below along with the patent image of the lock and a picture of a Gustave Young factory engraved Wesson Damascus double barrel hammer-gun

JSR III · #8 03-06-2017, 07:00 PM

So Ed if I am understanding you correctly the Wesson Firearms Company ran concurrently with the Smith & Wesson firerarms company?

If that is correct, why not build them under the S&W moniker???

H Richard · #9 03-06-2017, 08:27 PM

Would love to see some pictures of these art works.

opoefc · #10 03-06-2017, 08:37 PM

H Richard, Good question. The shotgun was to be the best American made shotgun of the period. Nothing else like it in the American market and it was to rival the best foreign guns. Some sources say the original price was $200, a very expensive sum for it's time, so perhaps the founders decided to try the endeavor as a separate entity in case it didn't pan out - which it didn't. Probably because of the price, not the quality. My guess why the last one produced was stamped Smith & Wesson, and engraved by Gustav Young,was an ego trip by D.B. perhaps, although none were made in the S&W plant - only in the Hall & Buckland ammo. plant. Jinks may have better info. Ed.

shinbone · #11 03-06-2017, 09:17 PM

You ask for help but don't share a photo . . . ?

Skeetr57 · #12 03-07-2017, 11:40 AM

I have one of the Wesson shotguns. It is one of those without a serial number, but has the patent date and is engraved. The firing lock work is very similar to a single action S&W, except mounted on the lock plate. The gun is opened by lifting the top lever rather than rotating it. The barrels are locked by a rising bolt which engages a dolls head extension of the barrel rib. It does not seem to me to be a very strong locking system, but my gun shows a lot of use, and is still tight.
Wesson brought a barrel maker from England to make the Damascus barrels, and after the Wesson was discontinued, the Parker Gun company hired him before deciding that it was not economical to manufacture Damascus barrels in the US.

Gunner327 · #13 03-08-2017, 01:32 AM

Thanks, Guys first time posting.
Henry

Gunner327 · #14 03-08-2017, 01:33 AM

Photos came when I bought the gun from a friend, it was found in an antique store in the 1960s.

Gunner327 · #15 03-08-2017, 01:37 AM

Here's the serial number

H Richard · #16 03-08-2017, 11:26 AM

BEAUTIFUL GUN. I wonder who they had make the barrels up for them.

crossv · #17 03-08-2017, 06:26 PM

I am impressed with the extreme coverage and quality of the engraving on this example. It has about twice the coverage of mine. I would welcome comments from others with access to examples of these shotguns,.

Gunner327, would you be willing to let us post a copy of your photos over to the SWCA private forum where we would try to get Roy Jinks to make some comment on your example compared to the range of known examples, since it seems to me that maybe your example is sort of an exceptional one?

CB

Skeetr57 · #18 03-08-2017, 08:51 PM

H Richard: As I posted above, the barrels were made at the Wesson company by the Damascus barrel maker they brought over from England. Wesson even patented a process to manufacture the ribs from a tube of steel that was machined and then sliced lengthwise into individual ribs. I am sure that this was an effort to reduce the amount of hand work required, as any other method of forming them results in a very crooked piece of work that requires skilled straightening before use.

opoefc · #19 03-09-2017, 02:19 AM

Back in the 60s I was a partner in an antique gun store and we would buy up old shotguns, usually percussion type, for little money from pawnshops, etc., saw off the barrels to 18 inches, paint them with gold & silver paint, put on some flower decals and sell them at flea markets for "Wedding Guns" One day I came to the store and my partner was busy sawing off barrels on a new batch of shotguns. I glanced at the pile and immediately spotted a Wesson Fire Arms 12 ga. double he had just shortened to 18 inches. They are easy to spot with the odd pull up lever behind the breech. It actually made the gun better, as the muzzle of the gun had been flattened by a truck running over it. That gun's now in a S&W collection in Little Rock, Arkansas. Ed.

Club Gun Fan · #20 03-09-2017, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opoefc

Back in the 60s I was a partner in an antique gun store and we would buy up old shotguns, usually percussion type, for little money from pawnshops, etc., saw off the barrels to 18 inches, paint them with gold & silver paint, put on some flower decals and sell them at flea markets for "Wedding Guns" One day I came to the store and my partner was busy sawing off barrels on a new batch of shotguns. I glanced at the pile and immediately spotted a Wesson Fire Arms 12 ga. double he had just shortened to 18 inches. They are easy to spot with the odd pull up lever behind the breech. It actually made the gun better, as the muzzle of the gun had been flattened by a truck running over it. That gun's now in a S&W collection in Little Rock, Arkansas. Ed.

Ed
Please tell me it's not in the governors mansion!

opoefc · #21 03-09-2017, 01:42 PM

Don,my Son, Never fear, it's not in the Governor's grasp, I sold it to S&WCA collector # 18, however I checked with him and he sold it at a Symposium a couple yrs. ago, so current location is now unknown to me. But not all is lost. The 12 inches that was sawed off the barrel are in an abandoned landfill in Southern Calif. Now is the time to raise your Dumpster Diving skills to heroic levels and retrieve that relic for posterity. I expect a Journal article to follow! Ed.

45Wheelgun · #22 03-09-2017, 04:17 PM

Gunner327 -

There were two grades of these shotguns. There is a simple way to determine if you have the deluxe grade or not.

If you look under the barrel release lever you may see DB Wesson's monogram. That was only included on the deluxe version of the Wesson Shotgun. The Deluxe Wesson Shotgun is the only firearm to bear this monogram. It was never used by S&W on a production firearm.

All of these shotguns (100%) were engraved by Gustave Young. DB Wesson hired him away from Colt specifically to engrave these firearms. That is how he ended up engraving for S&W during this time period.

Gustave Young designed the S&W logo and when you see the monogram (designed 10 years or so, prior to the logo) you can see the familial relationship to the famous logo.

All my knowledge on this topic comes from a fantastic, lengthy conversation with Mr. Roy Jinks several years ago when I was afforded the opportunity to handle many of the Wesson Shotguns in his collection. Even with such a small number manufactured, there is an amazing amount of diversity among the surviving examples.

My Custom Randall Made Knife Bowles Skinner (Scrimshaw by Randall's Official Scrimshander Mr. Rick Bowles and Engraving by Mr. John Pease) has the monogram scrimshawed on one side of the handle. Mr. and Mrs Jinks were instrumental in getting the artwork to Mr. Bowles for this project.

JSR III · #23 03-09-2017, 06:11 PM

Dave, that knife is absolutely exquisite. A real work of art.

Just out of curiosity, what do these shotguns market for?

Breakaway500 · #24 03-10-2017, 09:28 AM

More photos of that incredible shotgun,please..

Watchdog · #25 03-10-2017, 10:43 AM

The engraving is breathtaking in its intricacy and its beauty. And just look at the checkering!

This gun is a genuine treasure, just a stunning example of the gunmaker's art. What I wouldn't give to know its history...where has it been and what has it done in its lifetime.

Kudos to the OP for starting this thread and posting the photographs. This is what makes this forum worthwhile.

mrcvs · #26 03-10-2017, 11:42 AM

What is the range with regards to value of one of these? This is a particularly nice example of the gunmaker's and engraver's art. On the other hand, the side by side market is very soft and often anything other than British manufactured or, if American, and not Parker, Fox, or L C Smith, or, even if the aforementioned but Damascus barrels, there is little interest.

KSK · #27 03-11-2017, 05:07 PM

I have S/N 45. According to the factory letter, it is a deluxe model, originally purchased by Horace Smith for C. Hibard. The records even had the shot pattern from the company's proof testing book. I highly recommend for gunner327 to request a letter from the Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation on his Wesson shotgun s/n #6.
-Karl-

Watchdog · #28 03-11-2017, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSK

I have S/N 45. According to the factory letter, it is a deluxe model, originally purchased by Horace Smith for C. Hibard. The records even had the shot pattern from the company's proof testing book. I highly recommend for gunner327 to request a letter from the Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation on his Wesson shotgun s/n #6.
-Karl-

Just think...this gun was purchased in 1872. Putting that in context, that was just seven years after the Civil War ended. The South was still in its Reconstruction Period. U. S. Grant wins the presidency again, and Yellowstone National Park is established as the first national park.

Until I stumbled across this thread, I was totally unaware these shotguns even existed or had been made. And this is one of only 219 ever made.

Another gun to be treasured forever.

shouldazagged · #29 03-12-2017, 12:01 AM

Absolutely breathtaking. A magnificent gun. It's a classic case of "If only it could talk!"

Thank you for letting us get acquainted with it.

Gunner327 · #30 03-17-2017, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crossv

I am impressed with the extreme coverage and quality of the engraving on this example. It has about twice the coverage of mine. I would welcome comments from others with access to examples of these shotguns,.

Gunner327, would you be willing to let us post a copy of your photos over to the SWCA private forum where we would try to get Roy Jinks to make some comment on your example compared to the range of known examples, since it seems to me that maybe your example is sort of an exceptional one?

CB

Please do, I am a member of the SWCA. I have requested a letter!

Gunner327 · #31 03-17-2017, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 45Wheelgun

Gunner327 -

There were two grades of these shotguns. There is a simple way to determine if you have the deluxe grade or not.

If you look under the barrel release lever you may see DB Wesson's monogram. That was only included on the deluxe version of the Wesson Shotgun. The Deluxe Wesson Shotgun is the only firearm to bear this monogram. It was never used by S&W on a production firearm.

All of these shotguns (100%) were engraved by Gustave Young. DB Wesson hired him away from Colt specifically to engrave these firearms. That is how he ended up engraving for S&W during this time period.

Gustave Young designed the S&W logo and when you see the monogram (designed 10 years or so, prior to the logo) you can see the familial relationship to the famous logo.

All my knowledge on this topic comes from a fantastic, lengthy conversation with Mr. Roy Jinks several years ago when I was afforded the opportunity to handle many of the Wesson Shotguns in his collection. Even with such a small number manufactured, there is an amazing amount of diversity among the surviving examples.

My Custom Randall Made Knife Bowles Skinner (Scrimshaw by Randall's Official Scrimshander Mr. Rick Bowles and Engraving by Mr. John Pease) has the monogram scrimshawed on one side of the handle. Mr. and Mrs Jinks were instrumental in getting the artwork to Mr. Bowles for this project.

Your knife is beautiful. Yes the monogram is there circled by a shield I have never noticed it before! Thanks for your help. Hopefully I'll have an opportunity to speak to Mr. Jinks.-Henry

Gunner327 · #32 03-17-2017, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSK

I have S/N 45. According to the factory letter, it is a deluxe model, originally purchased by Horace Smith for C. Hibard. The records even had the shot pattern from the company's proof testing book. I highly recommend for gunner327 to request a letter from the Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation on his Wesson shotgun s/n #6.
-Karl-

Karl, thank you for sharing, yes we both have Deluxe shotguns. Your's is wonderful. It would be fun to put both of our guns next to each other! Can't wait for my letter. -Henry

Club Gun Fan · #33 03-17-2017, 09:51 AM

Henry
We received your letter and it has been forwarded to Roy. I think it is a fantastic piece!
Don Mundell
Assistant Historian
SWHF

KSK · #34 03-19-2017, 11:47 PM

Henry,
I look forward to the details of your Wesson shotgun from your letter request. Serial #6 ought to be interesting! I agree, they would be fun to display together. Yours is a beautiful example.
-Karl-

Gunner327 · #35 03-26-2017, 04:24 PM

Don,
Thank you so much!
I look forward to the team's thoughts.
Henry

mojave30cal · #36 03-26-2017, 05:06 PM

Dang! Now I want one. They are a work of art. I better start
checking pawn shops and gun shops a little more carefully.

Gunner327 · #37 04-02-2017, 01:47 PM

Here's the letter, the team sent a reprinted manual/advertisement. No mention of the engraving. Looked into the shipping location, looks like a well known period outdoor supply store.