Hello everyone,
On my LGS there's this revolver listed:

It's an S&W. Top break, in .38 S&W.

I don't know anything about top breaks.
May anyone shed some light about it? What model is it? Is it a good gun? Can it be fired safely with modern .38 S&W ammo?

The price is really low, should I take it?

Thank you all very much.

Diego

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If those are ivories . . . .

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and what his trumpet saith

Those are pearl grips and would bring at least $100-$150 by themselves. If that barrel hasn't been cut it is a uncommon length.

It may be a refinish,and may have been shortened,but if the price is right,I'd scoff that baby up! 38 S&W ammo is available and lots of fun.

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My Daddy was a pistol..

Hello, Diego! That is a fine looking top break which is wearing factory pearl grips. The model is a .38 Double Action. As stated by merl^, those pearl grips are quite valuable by themselves. Also, original short barreled guns are more valuable to collectors. If the barrel on that gun has been cut down, the added value is lost. In the US, these old top breaks are not very valuable unless there is something unique about them.

Yes, if the gun is in good working condition, you can shoot modern .38 S&W cartridges in it...if you can find ammunition there. We can still buy it here but it is more expensive than more common ammunition and sometimes difficult to find a store that carries it. Just to be clear, it is not .38 Special. The .38 S&W and .38 S&W Special are different in diameter and length. The .38 S&W cartridge is compatible with guns that shoot the British .380 Revolver MK II cartridge which was used for the .38 Webley top break revolver.

Anyway, that snubbie should be a fun gun to own and shoot. Let us know if you decide to buy it.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

I am a sucker for these cut barrel pocket revolvers. Just picked up a 2" 32 DA for $150 and love it. I am certain your gun has been refinished. The hammer shows bright blue, which is wrong. The revolver has a pinned style front sight and no pin visible. The shortest standard length for a 38 DA, 3rd Model or 4th Model was 3 1/2". Very few special orders may or may not have been manufactured, but should have a barrel address on the right side. Check the rib for any remnants of the original stamping.

Nothing detracts from the fun factor of shooting these little gems, but even if perfect, under $200 is true value of a cut 32 or 38 DA. Have fun at the range and amaze your friends!

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Dear Wiregrassguy, thank you for your detailed answer!

Top breaks are not very valuable here either, and this one is for sale very, very cheap. I might have to go look at it in person. If it's in good working condition it does look like an appealing deal.

.38 S&W is actually quite easy to find around here because there are many, many old guns laying around. It is more expensive than .38 Special, though.

I don't plan to shoot it a whole lot but I do shoot my guns and definitely would like to take it to the range.

What year were this produced? Early 1900's?

Thank you all for your help.

Hi sir, my previous post was before this reply.
I agree with you, it is most certainly refinished, and chances are that barrel was cut.
Prices where I live are more than double than US prices. For instance: a Glock 19 is $1.100. A used 686 is $1.000. A Remington 870 Express is $950.
Yes... it sucks.

This one is selling for $150 here. That's a "US price", so it'd be like it was selling over there for $75.

I must say your comments are making me think about getting this one pretty badly.

Gentlemen,
Firstly, sorry for the triple post.

I have some more info on the gun:

S/N is 425.7xx

Which means it's a Fourth Model.


These revolvers are not drop safe, right?

Is there any other consideration or something to check? I'm leaning towards buying it, but I'm a bit concerned about it being safe to shoot.

Thanks again!

If it is mechanically sound,it is safe to shoot. You may not want to carry it fully loaded,if you are concerned about the potential of dropping it,and a negligent discharge. $75? That's not even worth thinking about. Sold.!

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My Daddy was a pistol..

At $75 it is a steal. Go get it before they realize what it is worth.

Yes and no. There is a safe notch on these revolvers, but you have to pull the hammer back slightly to manually engage. If you never forget to do that before carrying, great, but most old-time recommendations were to lower the firing pin between 2 charges.

The gun would have most likely shipped in 1902.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I have to agree, very nice.

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Made it, Ma! Top of the world!

Gentlemen, you convinced me.
I took an "extended lunch break" from work and drove to the gun shop.

This is what I saw:

* The barrel is indeed cut. The front sight was bronze welded to the rib. It's a bit nasty since they cut the lettering: you can read "NGFIELD MASS" below the front sight.

* Are you sure those are factory pearl grips? They're far from beautiful in person, and they do not have S&W medallions.

* The timing is perfect. Cylinder locks up just before the hammer goes all the way back. Action is not great, it's heavy, but it isn't gritty.

* Cylinder and frame have play in them. If you cock the hammer and pull the trigger, it locks up nicely, but still with some play.

(Bear in mind this is comparing it to my S&W 10... I suppose top-breaks feel flimsier than swing-out revolvers?).

* The frame opens smoothly and locks with confidence. Extractor works OK, cylinder turns freely.

* Rifling is surprisingly intact, with some "blotching".

* And finally... it comes with a full box of ammo included!!!

I was sold right there and then and bought it.

Unfortunately I need to do some paperwork and will get it next week, maybe.

Hi sir, thank you for the date. That's a bummer, I was hoping it would be a 19th century manufactured gun.

I indeed tried to half-cock the hammer, but wasn't able to do it... Maybe there's something wrong there with this one. I also could not lock the cylinder with the firing pin between two rounds.


Anyway.. pretty excited. Hope to send you some more pics tomorrow.
Thank you all for your help.

Congratulations. You might need to do some work when you get it home. There should be no "flimsiness" with the action. I have a cut barrel 38 DA that is very tight, maybe some grit and dried oils, so clean it up well and lubricate it before a trip to the range. The stocks are indeed original factory with the gold medallion and, as others said, bring good money by themselves here in the US.

The pictures show my cut gun along with the position of the firing pin at rest and in safe position. Very little difference between the two positions, but when the hammer is fully down, it does not allow the cylinder to turn, until you pull the hammer to the safe position and then the cylinder turns freely. Good luck with your purchase.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I just enlarged the photos I don't think they are original Smith grips the medallion doesn't look right. Even so I still dont think you could get hurt at that price.

Dear Mr. Glowe, thank you. What work would you recommend me to do prior to shooting? Is there anything I should tighten or just give it a thorough cleaning? I will try the half cock position as soon as I can and see if it works.

Dear Mr. merl67, exactly. The medallions are not the S&W logo, they're just golden circles with random lines inside.

In person, the gun does look good just sitting there. I know that with a good cleaning and some elbow grease it will look much better still.

I am kinda having second thoughts, though. I read quite a lot about top breaks and smokeless ammo and am now a bit scared that it will be unsafe to shoot.

.38 S&W is quite underpowered... can it go kaboom on me?

As long as it locks up good and timing is ok you should be fine any 38 S&W ammo should be safe do not shoot anyones reloads in it but factory stuff will be fine. To clean it take the grips of and if you have access to mineral spirits(paint thinner) or the like let it soak for a day or two in that it will help dissolve dried oil and grease. If you have access to compressed air blow it out then re oil the moving parts by putting drops of oil in all the open areas you can find. Then work the action to get it in all of the areas of moving parts then just wipe off the excess from the outside of the gun.

As noted, the first step is to thoroughly clean the gun. If you are comfortable with disassembly, it is best to remove all parts, including the trigger guard and trigger. Clean the parts individually to assure that all dried oils and debris is removed. Check all parts for cracks, excessive wear and reassemble. You might not actually feel the safe position when pulling the hammer back, since it is just a very small movement to engage. When testing to see if the firing pin will lodge between the rounds, make sure you hold the hammer from falling free and keep pressure on the trigger, so the hammer will fully fall against the frame.

As you clean, you can check for wear on the sear and see if anyone has taken a file to any parts of the gun. Other than that,, the cylinder will normally have enough wear to provide a minimum amount of forward/backward movement and the top latch might show slight signs of movement, but that is normal. With an empty gun, pull the trigger and hold it after the hammer falls. Take your other hand and try to move the cylinder past the stop. If you cannot move it out of battery, everything there is fine. Next, fill the cylinder using empty brass with the fired primers in place. Cycle the gun in double action, hold the trigger back after each shot and check to make sure the cylinder is locked for all 5 pulls.

Last, check to see if you feel enough movement in the top latch to be able to force the gun open without moving the latch. Almost impossible to do, so you should be ready to go shooting.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Dear merl67 and glowe, thank you again for your invaluable help.
That function check drill is extremely helpful. I'll go today to fill some paperwork and check as much as I can.

Will post more pics as soon as I can get some.
Thank you again!

Gentlemen,
Just wanted to share a few better pics of the gun.

Did the function check drills that mr. glowe pointed out and this old fellow approved with no issues.

Please see the grips. Not original as initially supposed, right?

Oh, and something rather interesting was finding out that on these guns the cylinder rotates clockwise (like a Colt) instead of anti clockwise like all modern S&W revolvers.

Hope you like the pics.

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A close-in photo of the top of the barrel and another of the left side of the barrel would help folks figure out if the barrel is original or cut-down from a different length. That would make a significant difference in the value.

Good morning, sir.
It is a cut barrel and it's reblued. This piece doesn't hold any collectible value, but it now has a new home and should prove interesting to take it to the range once in a while.

The cut barrel has already been established,evidenced by the partial barrel lettering.

Congratulations- looks like you have yourself a nice little shooter there!