S&W frontier 44/40

chuck303 · #1 03-22-2017, 01:00 AM

got this in a trade, abit rough, looks like it was originally nickel plated but practically all the finish has worn, sn 6905, with a 5" barrel. can anyone help me figure out if this is a frontier 44/40, and maybe date of manufacture? its missing its mainspring and grips but should be serviceable as action locks up pretty darn tight and indexes fine even without the mainspring.

can anyone here also direct me towards an online dealer that may have my needed parts?

any help is always appreciated

glowe · #2 03-22-2017, 08:45 AM

The important thing to look for is the length of the cylinder. Yours looks to be the long cylinder. The fact that the cylinder is 1 9/16" long and the serial number is low, it should be a Frontier. The later 44 Russians were made with the long cylinder, but early examples had a 1 7/16" 44 Russian cylinder. The change occurred around 1887. There were 15,000 Frontiers made from 1886 to 1913, but did not ship in serial number order. Yours would have shipped in the early 1890s.

I believe the mainspring is of the type that was used in NM3 and all 44 DAs, probably more. Check on ebay regularly for parts for sale or hard rubber stocks. gunpartscorp.com and Jack First may also have mainsprings. Reproduction stocks are avaialable from a few online companies. Just search to find them. NM3, 44 DA, and K frame stocks are the same size, except for the front edge of the butt-frame. Check this link to determine what you need to look for. http://smith-wessonforum.com/blog.php?b=111 . In a pinch, K frame Model 1905 stocks will work. Good luck

Forgot to add that the 44 DA Russian caliber guns started showing up with long cylinders around 16,000 - 17,000 serial number range.

opoefc · #3 03-22-2017, 03:43 PM

It has all the correct earmarks of a .44-40DA. If a .44-40 round will chamber, then it's a 44-40. The serial number, 6905, falls in the correct range for a .44-40DA. and that serial number is shown in the S&W production logs for 44-40s, as being made May 24, 1882. The only other caliber this model was made in, is 38-40, however your serial number is not in the range of the 38-40s. Mainsprings for other S&W NM#3s of that time period should work OK. Ed.

chuck303 · #4 03-22-2017, 07:28 PM

glowe thanks foor the info, it is a 44/40 cylinder.

also thanks for giving me the date of manufacture. may i ask what mainspring will work? what is a mn#3? please forgive me i am abit unfamiliar with this term

opoefc · #5 03-22-2017, 07:37 PM

"MN#3" - typo - should read "NM#3" for New Model No. 3., which is the same gun, only in Single Action instead of Double Action. They used the same main springs. Sorry about that! Ed.

deadin · #6 03-22-2017, 10:43 PM

Quote:

NM3, 44 DA, and K frame stocks are the same size, except for the front edge of the butt-frame.

Just for giggles I dug out a set of K-Frame Hard Rubber Round Butt stocks and compared them to the ones on my 44/40 DA . While they appear the same (except for the front edge) the stock locating pins seem to be a different size. The K-frame pins are smaller and the panels won't fit the DA frame unless the holes are reamed out.

chuck303 · #7 03-23-2017, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opoefc

"MN#3" - typo - should read "NM#3" for New Model No. 3., which is the same gun, only in Single Action instead of Double Action. They used the same main springs. Sorry about that! Ed.

haha i should have known , sorry lol

glowe · #8 03-23-2017, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadin

Just for giggles I dug out a set of K-Frame Hard Rubber Round Butt stocks and compared them to the ones on my 44/40 DA . While they appear the same (except for the front edge) the stock locating pins seem to be a different size. The K-frame pins are smaller and the panels won't fit the DA frame unless the holes are reamed out.

Dean, I have had to move the location of the pin holes on more stocks than not over the years. Factory hand fitting equals slight variances and it seems that even if the stocks snap onto the frame, the stocks are often slightly forward of rearward of where they should be. Sometimes the misalignment is bad enough that I fill the hole and drill a new one. Mixing a pinch of oil based black paint with 2-part epoxy does a nice job of filling. Don't use too much paint or the epoxy will not harden, just enough to tint the epoxy. It also works with J-B Weld.

deadin · #9 03-23-2017, 10:25 AM

I know what you mean about moving holes....
This one looks to have the holes in the right place, they just need to be bigger. I assume that the locating pin diameter changed at some time???

chuck303 · #10 03-23-2017, 11:10 AM

guys i believe i may be missing the hammer stirrup is missing or broken. does anyone know where i can locate another?

chuck303 · #11 03-23-2017, 11:15 AM

guys i think my hammer stirrup is broken. can you tell me would this one work from numrich?
Stirrup Gun Parts | 374940B | Numrich Gun Parts

deadin · #12 03-23-2017, 11:34 AM

I doubt very much that it will fit....
You might try these suppliers:
Poppert's Gun Parts Main Menu
Jack First Gun Parts

Be sure to ask for a stirrup for a S&W .44 top break. They have many more parts than those listed. Jack First will even make a part for you, but the price will be breathtaking........

chuck303 · #13 03-23-2017, 12:17 PM

il try popperts first

chuck303 · #14 03-23-2017, 02:36 PM

both no luck. sooo many stirrups on ebay i hope i can find one to fit er

glowe · #15 03-24-2017, 09:20 AM

I just remembered I had a 44-40 apart for hammer repair and put is aside a few months ago. Just took a few pictures of what you should look for. The stirrup has the following measurements.

Overall length - .460"
Forged pin width - .250"
Forged pin diameter - .079"
Stirrup web width - .065"
Hammer Pin diameter - .067"

deadin · #16 03-24-2017, 10:31 AM

Gary, Very Good!!
I was thinking of pulling mine apart for the same pictures and measurements. Thanks for saving me the trouble.

That shouldn't be too difficult to fabricate, although getting the slight curve in the body might take a little trial and error. The part will definitely need hardening before much use....

motorcarman · #17 09-19-2018, 06:49 PM

Through a strange set of circumstances I have S&W FRONTIER 44 DA #6905. It is now in Wise County Texas. I was looking for info on the serial date and found this post in this forum!! The serial number surprised me!!

The previous owner put some reproduction grips on it but it still was missing the mainspring. I bought it in early September 2018 and I installed a S&W model 10 mainspring with a 'shim' to add tension.

The spring is a little short but the hammer falls hard enough to set off the cartridges. ALL other parts are in the frame and function properly.

I did shim the top latch to get it a little tighter so the barrel had less play.

I found a main spring at EAST TAYLOR LLC

Smith and Wesson Revolver Parts

Kinda pricey but it will work better than the model 10.

Glad to be here.

bob
Decatur, TX

Wiregrassguy · #18 09-20-2018, 07:14 AM

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! How about posting some pictures of your 44 DA?

JSR III · #19 09-20-2018, 08:23 AM

New to antiques so I am now completely confused. Are the OP's gun and motorcarman's gun the same gun????????

Jtown · #20 09-20-2018, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSR III

New to antiques so I am now completely confused. Are the OP's gun and motorcarman's gun the same gun????????

Serial # is the same
Walt

model3sw · #21 09-20-2018, 04:24 PM

If this is a 44-40 then the proper description would be a:

"1st Model 44 Double Action Frontier", it is NOT a Model 3 anything !

PS: If a .44-40 round fits, it is a Frontier.

IIRC: A .44 Russian will "fit" (but not a proper round to try to fire) in a .44-40 chamber but a .44-40 does will not fit a .44 Russian chamber.

model3sw · #22 09-20-2018, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opoefc

"MN#3" - typo - should read "NM#3" for New Model No. 3., which is the same gun, only in Single Action instead of Double Action. They used the same main springs. Sorry about that! Ed.

Ed, isn't it correct that this is a 1st Model 44 DA Frontier and not a New Model 3 Double Action (as many might write) ?

andy52 · #23 09-20-2018, 06:48 PM

Just out of curiosity would these stocks fit on that revolver?

model3sw · #24 09-21-2018, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy52

Just out of curiosity would these stocks fit on that revolver?

I cannot tell what those are but New Model 3 stocks do not fit, if that helps.

The stocks for a 1st Model 44 Double action are smaller than the stocks for a New Model 3.

Gary, 1905 (M&P) is a square butt. Stock could not possibly fit or am I missing your intent ?

andy52 · #25 09-21-2018, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by model3sw

I cannot tell what those are but New Model 3 stocks do not fit, if that helps.

The stocks for a 1st Model 44 Double action are smaller than the stocks for a New Model 3.

Gary, 1905 (M&P) is a square butt. Stock could not possibly fit or am I missing your intent ?

No real intent beyond curiosity. I don't collect antique S&Ws but do find them interesting. I've seen several threads in the past about the Gutta Percha stocks and was curious what models may have had them, you are correct the ones in the photo are for a new model 3.

motorcarman · #26 09-21-2018, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! How about posting some pictures of your 44 DA?

The OP (chuck303) already posted the pics. IT IS the same revolver. It was STILL missing the main spring. The next owner? (maybe chuck303 moved to San Antonio??) from San Antonio TX put repro grips (NC ORDINANCE??) but still no spring. I bought it and he shipped it to Wise County TX.

I fitted a SW model 10 spring and shimmed to tighten so the hammer would set off a primer. I loaded a few 44WCF cartridges with a few grains of black powder and some wax bullets.

All the wax bullets punched holes in a piece of styrofoam.

Next I will try some light black powder loads with 200 grain LRN.

I contacted EAST TAYLOR LLC in Georgia and they will make a new repro main spring. I have a few Webley 455 so this seems like a natural fit for me.

bob

motorcarman · #27 01-28-2019, 11:01 PM

I got the MAINSPRING from EAST TAYLOR LLC in Georgia. It fits and works just fine. The revolver functions properly so I am using low power black powder loads. They quoted a six week time line and it arrived about 6 or 7 weeks after I sent the payment.

Thanks for all the info on this great forum.

bob