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Old 04-16-2017, 11:50 AM
cowrustler cowrustler is offline
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I came across a Model 3 Russian in the best condition I've ever seen. Bore, chambers, grips are all excellent. The bluing is bright and probably 95% though duller on the cylinder. All lettering is sharp and crisp. Case coloring on the hammer is strong and bright. This revolver must have been in some one's dresser for the last 125 years.
All the old Smiths I've owned in the past were patina or re-nickeled. This one is gorgeous and was shipped to Schyler, Hartley, and Graham in New York in 1877 according to the factory letter. While I'm somewhat up on Colts and Winchesters, I'd like to get some idea as to value as my insurance is renewing shortly. Thanks for any input, cowrustler

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Old 04-16-2017, 11:56 AM
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Insurance.I'd cover it for a minimum of $5k..maybe more if I could see it. Make sure you take photos and documents and keep them safe, as after a loss it will be all you have vs. them saying prove it.
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:09 PM
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I came across a Model 3 Russian in the best condition I've ever seen. Bore, chambers, grips are all excellent. The bluing is bright and probably 95% though duller on the cylinder. All lettering is sharp and crisp. Case coloring on the hammer is strong and bright. This revolver must have been in some one's dresser for the last 125 years.
All the old Smiths I've owned in the past were patina or re-nickeled. This one is gorgeous and was shipped to Schyler, Hartley, and Graham in New York in 1877 according to the factory letter. While I'm somewhat up on Colts and Winchesters, I'd like to get some idea as to value as my insurance is renewing shortly. Thanks for any input, cowrustler
Perhaps you could post a few photos. What I think you're describing is a Model 3 Russian 3rd version with *CORRECTED to: RUSSIAN MODEL not REISSUE" stamp on top strap (for US distribution). Tell tale on this is the integral front sight and the difference in the grip frame having the "Saw-handle" appearance (as it had been called in years past). It should have a "SH" inside a diamond shape stamp.

I'm a licensed Auction House, providing formal appraisals for legal purposes (Trusts, Estates, etc.) Would gladly give you a verbal on this as a courtesy.
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:22 PM
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Thanks for your promptness. The sight is part of the "rib", not one pinned on. I don't see any "re-issue". The address on the barrel is followed by "Russian Model" in English. I am not sure how to post pictures on this site but will take some and see if I can figure it out.
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:46 PM
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I have pictures but have no idea what a 'url" is. On other sites or e-mails I just attach them.
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:56 PM
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You have to use the "advanced" option to post, to open the sites picture manager. It works easy once found. I move my picture files to my desktop (that I am going to post) as they are easier to access when prompted. Don't forget to hit upload once you choose the file.

"Russian model" stamped on it? Hmm..may be a replica/copy..
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:13 PM
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According to Standard Catalog of Firearms, it's supposed to have "Russian Model" on it if it's a commercial model. And I don't think S&W would send a letter on a copy or replica. I don't see where to find the advanced feature.
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:43 PM
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"According to Standard Catalog of Firearms, it's supposed to have "Russian Model" on it if it's a commercial model. And I don't think S&W would send a letter on a copy or replica."

Correct you are! I was just diving into the Book for clarity.

When you scroll down to the quick reply box, just under the typing box will be a left and right button. One (left) says post quick reply. The right one says "Go Advanced" Click on that and you will open a new format. Below that will be an "additional options" menu. Look down the list. Click on "Manage attachments" and it will open an upload box you can navigate through and post picture files that you choose from your computer. Don't forget to hit "upload" for each file. When done, you can hit preview post, or hit post..
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:59 PM
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I am sorry to be such a technological dunce but I only have "submit reply" and "preview" buttons under the typing box. Perhaps when I get back from dinner at the neighbors Ican figure this out.
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Old 04-16-2017, 02:07 PM
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Hmm.. Maybe it's your browser. I'm using an older Safari or Chrome and see what I see. Maybe your post count needs to be a certain level before you can upload pics? I don't know...not really tech myself..
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Old 04-16-2017, 02:07 PM
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I am sorry to be such a technological dunce but I only have "submit reply" and "preview" buttons under the typing box. Perhaps when I get back from dinner at the neighbors Ican figure this out.
There is a box LOWER than where you're looking that indicates ADVANCED or MANAGE ATTACHMENTS in which you can then add digital images.
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Old 04-16-2017, 02:26 PM
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I think I found the right box to upload with which I did but nowI don't know where the pictures went after uploading....?
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Old 04-16-2017, 02:28 PM
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Interesting. Only the picture of the bore was uploaded...?
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Old 04-16-2017, 05:20 PM
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You need to upload after every file you choose,or they won't appear. That shot is spacey....
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Old 04-16-2017, 05:28 PM
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Thanks to all for the help. I may have gotten them loaded.


Hurray!!!
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Old 04-16-2017, 05:41 PM
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Bingo! Looks nice. That's one i'd like to have in my hands to examine..
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Old 04-16-2017, 05:44 PM
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Sal (the antique arms dealer above) will be back with an official estimate, but I would guess one of this quality is not often bought/sold/traded, so a price based on recent transactions may be difficult to obtain. The standard S & W reference book puts it at between $6000-9000 but that is a general range.
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Old 04-16-2017, 07:14 PM
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I have been on pins an needles watching this thread! It was worth the wait ! That is a real beauty ! You gotta wonder how that thing shows up in that kind of condition after over 125 years ! I love the deep what i refer to as blacking on the old guns. Just imagine what the S&W factory was like when that gun was produced. Needless to say the machinery didn't have alot of safety guards. That is a collection maker !
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Old 04-16-2017, 08:46 PM
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Thank you for the kind words and help getting my pictures posted. I do appreciate these things and as said above, once a person figures it out, posting pictures is easy. Some of us just take longer to figure things out than others.
This is a beautiful gun and it'd be wonderful to know how it stayed that way. The old Smiths I owned in the past (and actually shot in Cowboy Action Shooting 15 years ago) were nice guns but not in this revolver's league. In the last few years I've been more into older Colts and Winchesters but when this gun showed up, I knew it was a beauty.
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Old 04-16-2017, 09:07 PM
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Absolutely lovely ! Do you intend to shoot it ? We love range reports, too !

Larry
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Old 04-16-2017, 09:14 PM
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Larry, no shooting for this guy. I have a very difficult time seeing those ultra-fine Smith sights. I guess they thought "if we make the sights really, really small, think how accurate these will be". Not!
I don't have any vision problems but these sights just disappear at arm's length for me. This revolver belongs in somebody's collection where it will be kept as nice as it has been in the past.
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:29 AM
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The Revolver is not rare, but the finish & condition shown sure is!! There were not a lot of the commercial model manufactured, maybe 13,000, but value does not seem to be affected by whether it is Commercial or Russian contract. Even though there were far fewer Commercial revolvers made, the Russian contract guns are more valuable. Not may of the Russian contract revolvers remain. I have shot all mine and range wear is minimal. To fully understand what these revolvers represented 140 years ago, one has to experience the shooting experience. Maybe you need another one not so nice to shoot?

A quick visual comparison can be seen by my three models of Russians below.
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Old 04-17-2017, 04:26 PM
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Insurance.I'd cover it for a minimum of $5k..maybe more if I could see it. Make sure you take photos and documents and keep them safe, as after a loss it will be all you have vs. them saying prove it.
A good point for ANYBODY who insures their collection------------and your Homeowners contract gives you doodledy-squat (for theft).

For openers, the ONLY insurance worth having is that provided on a REPLACEMENT COST basis---what it would cost to replace the item---and you pick it----and YOU keep it up to date.

And given a loss---and given your insuror saying "Prove it.", they're not asking you to prove you had the loss (although that's a small part of it), they're asking (REQUIRING) you to justify/prove the REPLACEMENT COST amount you're claiming. The documentation you provide is commonly known as a "proof of loss". Give them a good one (GOOD photos documenting condition/PROFESSIONAL appraisals), and your check arrives by return mail. Give them anything they can pick at, and they're going to pick. That's their job. They're better at this sort of cuss fighting than you are. Do your part---get a check. Don't do your part----get a hassle.

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Old 04-17-2017, 04:56 PM
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Gary;
I can utterly relate to your philosophy of the shooting experience ! I had the very same urge and, knowing that (1) I could likely never afford an original and (2) I would also be reticent about shooting it, I managed to pick up a used Uberti Russian, and I really like it ! Bought a sack of new Top Brass brand cases, and all my .44 Spl. components get shared with the Russian. Now if only Uberti would bring back their "Laramie" (NM#3 copy) in .44 S&WR........

Larry

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Old 04-17-2017, 05:22 PM
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Welcome to the forum.

FWIW, either there is a typo in your original post or the letter is incorrect. The correct company name was Schuyler, Hartley & Graham. It was changed to Hartley and Graham upon the death of Schuyler and M. Hartley upon the death of Grahm.
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Old 04-18-2017, 10:09 AM
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Thanks to all for the help. I may have gotten them loaded.


Hurray!!!

If this one is original S&W vintage firearm it is one of the nicest I've ever seen. You say you have the factory letter ? Can you post it ?

I hate to even suggest this ... but it is "so" stunning that I have to ask .... Are you sure it is an original S&W vintage 3rd model Russian ? Have you checked for import marks on the gun an under the grips etc ? Any re-work / restoration marks.

Those case colors, sharp lines, defined sharp stampings and the finish is just magnificent. Even though many M3 Russian 3rd models were manufactured, not many survived in this condition. I'm hoping it is as real as it appears and wishing you only the best .... but usually when something is too good to be true ... more times than not, it is exactly that ... "too good to be true". I have seen many experienced collectors be fooled (me included) by magnificent restoration work.
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Old 04-18-2017, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
Sal (the antique arms dealer above) will be back with an official estimate, but I would guess one of this quality is not often bought/sold/traded, so a price based on recent transactions may be difficult to obtain. The standard S & W reference book puts it at between $6000-9000 but that is a general range.
Alan, if this one passes physical inspection by qualified collector / expert on this type Model 3, I expect it would garner much interest at auction. I don't collect Russian 3rds, and I'm enamored by it. Here's hoping it is the "Real McCoy" and all original.

A proper, valid, appraisal on this one requires a physical inspection of the item. The S&W letter validates the shipping date and destination shipped to of the serial number but does not authenticate the gun, itself. Only a physical inspection by qualified specialist or expert of this particular model will accomplish that. Or, if it goes to a major auction house to be sold, the Auction House must properly identify and authenticate the item prior to offering it for auction because if it is later found not to be what was described the Auction description, the Auction House is liable. They must then refund the entire sale price and all the high bidder's expenses which is an enormous pain in the tail so the Auction House MUST identify it properly to avoid the bad press and keep their reputation intact. Sal
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Old 04-18-2017, 10:39 AM
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Yes, it is a very nice original Smith #3. I know Uberti, etal, make good copies but I don't think they forge letters from S&W's Jinks (see background of the first picture) nor do they inscribe the barrel with the correct S&W address, etc. This is the real thing. I have no idea how it stayed so nice but it did. Some collector will get a very nice addition.
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Old 04-18-2017, 01:28 PM
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. . FWIW, either there is a typo in your original post or the letter is incorrect. The correct company name was Schuyler, Hartley & Graham . . .
James - check out the factory letter for "Schyler".
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Old 04-18-2017, 08:01 PM
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Welcome to the forum.

FWIW, either there is a typo in your original post or the letter is incorrect. The correct company name was Schuyler, Hartley & Graham. It was changed to Hartley and Graham upon the death of Schuyler and M. Hartley upon the death of Grahm.
We're all allowed a typo once in awhile ... Roy, included. It happens to the best of us as we are all human. (even you with the last words upon death of "Grahm". see above ... LOL)

Schuyler, Hartley and Graham - Wikipedia
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:51 PM
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Yes, it is a very nice original Smith #3. I know Uberti, etal, make good copies but I don't think they forge letters from S&W's Jinks (see background of the first picture) nor do they inscribe the barrel with the correct S&W address, etc. This is the real thing. I have no idea how it stayed so nice but it did. Some collector will get a very nice addition.
Does this mean that you are planning to sell it?
PLEASE post it on this site if you do.
Or at least let us know.
Beautiful gun.
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Old 04-20-2017, 08:36 AM
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I do appreciate your interest and hope that this gun goes to a good home.

Last edited by cowrustler; 04-20-2017 at 02:15 PM.
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