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Old 05-13-2017, 06:25 PM
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I have a Type 1 I read that it shoots a 22 black powder round , Ive never shot it but would like to, where does one buy ammo for a Type 1?

Also whats a type 1 worth?
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Old 05-13-2017, 06:35 PM
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If you are referring to a model 1 "tip-up", 7-shot .22, it originally used blackpowder .22 Shorts, which have not been produced for many years. A mechanically sound example 'should' be safe to fire with .22 BB Caps but I would think very hard about doing it, mid-19th century metallurgy and all. Not the same as a model 586 or 29-3

Value depends on condition, and photos would help.
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Old 05-13-2017, 06:35 PM
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Welcome to the forum.

It really depends on two factors, which model 1 that you have and what condition it is in. IIRC, the model 1 has a first, second and third issue. Within those issues there are numerous variations up to 16 if I am remembering correctly. Of course, purist collectors consider even the most minor changes to be a variation change.

Condition is fairly self explanatory. You can have a mint NIB gun or you can have a boat anchor or somewhere in between. Obviously, the closer that you are to the former, the price goes up. If you have one of the original cases that these guns came in then the price can increase by $1,000 or more just for the case being present.

So, with that said, we need a little more information. Photos of all angles and a serial number would help greatly.
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Old 05-14-2017, 09:22 AM
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Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass!
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Old 05-14-2017, 12:49 PM
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The Model One revolver has a very weak frame and latch system, so shooting one involves a very close inspection to make sure the barrel is firmly locked in the groove at the bottom of the frame and cannot pop open. It also needs to function perfectly, locking firmly into battery with every pull of the hammer for all 7 chambers. As for ammo, some have actually pulled the bullet of a 22 short and replaced the powder with 4F black powder, with enough powder to come up to the bottom of the seated bullet. In years past, CCI made what was called a BB Cap load that worked well in these guns, but I have not seem them for some time. The weakest loading for 22 Short today is a CCI CB Short. They do function in the Model One, but may be pushing the limits of this little 22 revolver. There are foreign lightly loaded 22 rounds out there, but I cannot tell you anything about their performance.
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Old 05-14-2017, 01:31 PM
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Its your gun, but I would not even think of shooting mine! If the temptation is too great for you I have a solution. Just send it to me so it can live a long and peaceful retirement with several like retired vintage pieces Kyle
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Old 05-14-2017, 01:46 PM
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I don't see the logic in shooting these old #1 revolvers. To what benefit would it be ? It's not a target shooter, it's not an accurate or self defense round, it's risks are greater than the benefits but if you must the .22 short CB would likely be the only modern ammo you could try at your own risk.

Quoting Mark Twain: I was armed to the teeth with a pitiful little Smith & Wesson's seven-shooter, which carried a ball like a homopathic pill, and it took the whole seven to make a dose for an adult. But I thought it was grand. It appeared to me to be a dangerous weapon. It had only one fault--you could not hit anything with it. One of our 'conductors' practiced awhile on a cow with it, and as long as she stood still and behaved herself she was safe; but as soon as she went to moving about, and he got to shooting at other things, she came to grief.- Roughing It


Mark Twain quotations - Guns
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Old 05-14-2017, 02:50 PM
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Hello Mr. Catcher, the bottom line from all these very diplomatic posts is, dont shoot it. I have several, and shooting is far from my mind.
Pls. dont shoot it. Best
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Old 05-14-2017, 09:58 PM
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Couple pics, its rough has not been touched in years, was my Grandmothers gun over 100 years ago, plese tell me anything ya'll know about it. Thanks!

[IMG][/IMG]

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Old 05-14-2017, 09:59 PM
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:00 PM
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:03 PM
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As for shooting this old piece , I like to shoot it once or twice not as a regular .

I was told by a reputable gun smith that the value of this gun was about 300 dollars and he had zero interest in it.
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:44 PM
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Winchester .22 shorts black powder, hmm

Winchester Super-X Ammo 22 Short Black Powder Blank Box of 50
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Old 05-15-2017, 07:09 AM
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What is the serial number? It appears to be a Model One Third Issue.
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Old 05-15-2017, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cow Catcher View Post
Two points on the Midway USA link - they are blank cartridges (powder, no bullet) and discontinued. The photo shows a modern style Winchester box so they may eventually make another production run of them, but it would be the same as yelling "bang" really loud.

The photos of the model 1 show the typical nickel finish damage from using black powder rounds without cleaning. Unless you are very lucky, the bore and chambers probably have heavy pitting - another good argument against trying to fire it. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
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Old 05-15-2017, 08:16 AM
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Nothing to appoigize for , telling it like it is , is appreciated! I have not seen this gun in years it just sits in the safe, the nasty apperance is what its always looked like and now with a hard look I think it might be beyond safe shooting, ashame too cause I bet this piece was only shot a handful of times if any at all.

Has cool history though, Grandma's gun carried while on country outing cause "there's bandits and gypsey's out there" ha ha .
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Old 05-15-2017, 09:07 AM
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You know what - - - it is your revolver and if you want to shoot it, and there is ammo out there somewhere that is appropriate to do so. Keep looking for CCI BB or CB caps and you will find them at ammunition auctions. I have shot lots of CB Shorts through my Model Ones revolvers with no ill effects for 30 years. A couple of cylinders full once and awhile to remind me of how far S&W has come from its humble beginnings brings a real sense of respect for all those models that have been developed since those early days. Can you break something like a spring or other small internal part, absolutely and you must know that parts are non-existent. Will it explode, heck no, unless you use the wrong ammunition. Your Model One, 3rd Issue shows loss of nickel, but overall looks like it is in very good condition.

That Issue revolver was made from 1868 to 1881 in serial number range 1 - 131,163. They are not worth much on the market, but as an heirloom, value doesn't matter. Not too many Grandmothers were "Pistol Packin' Mamas", so that is a great piece of family history. The stocks could be ivory, which used to be a BIG premium, but now we all worry about the laws and possible confiscation down the road. I believe the current law limits sales of under 200 grams, but you can own the piece and hand it down through the generations. I am quite sure those little stocks would weigh a half-pound. I recall seeing a one of a kind Winchester Lever Action rifle (Model 1866 if I recall correctly) that was totally made with ivory butt and forearm. Valuation was huge at one time, but now it cannot be sold legally.
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Old 05-16-2017, 09:27 AM
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I just ran across my chronograph data on testing various 22 loadings. I ran all these through the same revolver and recorded the data. What was interesting was that the original 22 black powder loads were much faster than the low velocity CCI ammo out there at the time of testing.

I have tried to "reload" 22 Short with black powder, using the smallest granulation available today, 4F, and could barely get the lead to exit the barrel. It is a given that the heeled bullets cannot be re-seated in the case with the tight crimp as done from the factory, but original 22 BP ammo must have been loaded with BP dust to get those velocities.

22 . . BB Caps . . CCI Factory. . . . . . 400 fps
22 . . CB Caps . . CCI Factory. . . . . . 475
22 . . CB Short . .CCI Factory . . . . . .500
22 . . Short . . . . UMC Factory BP . . .600
22 . . CB long . . .CCI Factory. . . . . . 700
22 . . Short . . . . CCI Factory . . . . . .990
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Old 06-11-2017, 08:51 PM
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I would not even think about shooting my Model 1's. If the barrel lockup is tight, then the last thing I want to do is subject it to ballistic pressures. And if the barrel lockup isn't tight, then firing anything is going to run the risk of destroying a great old piece of history.

I'm a pretty serious Model 1 collector. That said, I'd value this gun somewhere in the $200 to $300 range; it would depend on how tight the barrel hinge is and the condition of the bore. As others have indicated, these guns were often not cleaned after being shot with the older black powder ammo, which would cause some pretty serious corrosion issues.

If it's a part of your family history, then hang onto it. Almost all Model 1's were shipped through a handful of wholesalers, so in most cases it's impossible to know where these guns actually ended up. I'd give a lot more than $300 to have a gun like this that I knew had been in my family.

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