Smith & Wesson Forum

Advertise With Us Search
Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson Revolvers > S&W Antiques

Notices

S&W Antiques S&W Lever Action Pistols, Tip-Up Revolvers, ALL Top-Break Revolvers, and ALL Single Shots


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-29-2017, 09:05 PM
model3sw's Avatar
model3sw model3sw is offline
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
.38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production)  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Posts: 3,577
Likes: 7,970
Liked 4,671 Times in 1,606 Posts
Default .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production)

I have a factory nickel .38 Safety Hammerless SN: is in the VERY low 1xx range with the Z-bar barrel release.

It's special to me because I purchased this from S&WCA member Norman Hall way back in 1995 from the collection of his dad and because it was so early.

While it has been stored all these years, "dry", to help prevent any more of the nickel from flaking off. It had only a few minor places where the nickel was lifting when I purchased it.

Over the years a little more has flaked off but it's still a sweetie and certainly not a dog. The problem I have is, when I recently took it out of storage, I discovered that sometime over the years the trigger spring had broken. It happens ! Just time and years of sitting with tension on the springs of all the old S&W's sometimes they're just get brittle from age or have expired (age wise) and break. Most common is the trigger return springs on most top breaks.

As I've been advised, it seems this hammer spring is different from all other models that followed and possibly even revised within the 1st series itself.

In the picture you will see the broken end still attached to the stirrup. Then laying flat against the inside of the front strap is the other part of the spring.

The hammer spring attaches to the front strap. The larger spring in the rear is the safety lever spring only.

Trying to find this spring has been a chore, especially that it does not show up as such on any know diagrams I either have or have been provided.

Has anyone every had to make this type hammer spring, and if so, what di did you use to start with.

Back in the day, way pre-internet I needed a trigger return spring (which is V shaped) for a very nice .44 Double Action. NO ONE seemed to have this trigger return spring so I decided to made one starting with a larger shotgun spring which I shortened and trimmed to the correct overall width, then spent days thinning the later faces of the spring with rouge and hard buff wheel to attain the correct tension. It was a job that I will never do again as the labor involved was tremendous.

In this case, it doesn't seem this spring is available anywhere so I'd like to start with a spring that I do not have to customize to anything near the extent of the .44 DA 1st.

Can someone with a "working" .38 hammerless first model, post a picture with the grips off, similar to the pix I have posted so I can get an idea of what it looks like when it is in proper working order. I cannot determine where or how or if this spring was pinned to the inside of the front strap.

Any hints, help ? Thanks.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC_4347.jpg (38.5 KB, 72 views)
File Type: jpg DSC_4347-2.jpg (44.3 KB, 66 views)
__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Last edited by model3sw; 05-29-2017 at 09:26 PM. Reason: correction.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #2  
Old 05-30-2017, 09:20 AM
glowe's Avatar
glowe glowe is online now
US Veteran

.38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production)  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Michigan Western UP
Posts: 12,969
Likes: 3,048
Liked 14,360 Times in 5,474 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by model3sw View Post
. . . As I've been advised, it seems this hammer spring is different from all other models that followed and possibly even revised within the 1st series itself.

In the picture you will see the broken end still attached to the stirrup. Then laying flat against the inside of the front strap is the other part of the spring.

The hammer spring attaches to the front strap. The larger spring in the rear is the safety lever spring only. . .

Can someone with a "working" .38 hammerless first model, post a picture with the grips off, similar to the pix I have posted so I can get an idea of what it looks like when it is in proper working order. I cannot determine where or how or if this spring was pinned to the inside of the front strap. . .
That looks like a standard 38 Safety mainspring to me?? Have you tried to install a later model spring? I took a quick shot below and it looks like yours under the stocks.

I think you are confusing the sear spring that is a short spring pinned to the frame with the mainspring. The spring that is leaning against the safety bar is the rest of the mainspring, while the safety lever has its own spring pinned to the rear of the frame. Hope that helps.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1010001.jpg (84.3 KB, 40 views)
__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515

Last edited by glowe; 05-30-2017 at 09:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 05-30-2017, 09:21 AM
H Richard's Avatar
H Richard H Richard is offline
US Veteran
.38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Central IL
Posts: 22,802
Likes: 18,539
Liked 22,419 Times in 8,275 Posts
Default

Could you measure the length of the spring (both pieces together)? Possibly an I Frame or early J Frame might work?
__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 05-30-2017, 09:28 AM
model3sw's Avatar
model3sw model3sw is offline
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
.38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production)  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Posts: 3,577
Likes: 7,970
Liked 4,671 Times in 1,606 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glowe View Post
That looks like a standard 38 Safety mainspring to me?? Have you tried to install a later model spring? I took a quick shot below and it looks like yours under the stocks.

I think you are confusing the sear spring that is a short spring that is pinned to the frame with the mainspring. The spring that is leaning against the safety bar is the rest of the mainspring, while the safety lever has its own spring pinned to the rear of the frame. Hope that helps.
Gary, You're amazing ! I was focused on the front sear spring as that's where I found the broken end laying up against. I see, now that you point it out !

Most collectors know basics about many models while they specialize in (and are more experienced / studied on) a few certain models. You are a walking encyclopedia of ALL S&W's it seems. Thank you. Sal
__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #5  
Old 05-30-2017, 08:34 PM
tlay's Avatar
tlay tlay is offline
Member
.38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 2,937
Likes: 1,594
Liked 1,977 Times in 732 Posts
Default

If you need a spring, I probably have one. Let me know.
__________________
Tom
NRA Pistol Inst
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 05-30-2017, 08:57 PM
model3sw's Avatar
model3sw model3sw is offline
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
.38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production)  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Posts: 3,577
Likes: 7,970
Liked 4,671 Times in 1,606 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlay View Post
If you need a spring, I probably have one. Let me know.
Yes, email me, please. Thank you. Sal
__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 05-31-2017, 12:23 PM
gmborkovic gmborkovic is offline
SWCA Member
.38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production)  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA & SoFL
Posts: 8,692
Likes: 472
Liked 5,742 Times in 3,209 Posts
Default

That is what I like about this Forum. If you have a problem, somebody , fellow member, comes along and ties it up with a pretty, neat little bow.
Patience is the key word when dealing with these older S&Ws. Karma all
ways arrives to those who have passed Kindness along to others.
Best
__________________
Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-31-2017, 08:37 PM
tlay's Avatar
tlay tlay is offline
Member
.38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production) .38 Safety Hammerless first (very early production)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 2,937
Likes: 1,594
Liked 1,977 Times in 732 Posts
Default

Email sent!
__________________
Tom
NRA Pistol Inst
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
459, early production, rusty safety assembly? THX Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 9 01-28-2015 10:41 PM
Safety of the Safety Hammerless design Dragon88 S&W Antiques 0 07-08-2012 11:06 PM
WTB, early .32 Safety Hammerless extractor**FOUND ONE** BrianMajors WANTED to Buy 0 04-18-2012 08:22 PM
1st model .32 safety hammerless early s/n bobsdad S&W Antiques 5 02-15-2012 11:42 AM
38 Safety Hammerless 1st Model first month production nutsforsmiths S&W Antiques 3 04-20-2011 12:27 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:39 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)