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Old 07-03-2017, 11:58 AM
Rick Bowles Rick Bowles is offline
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Default Help with a Second Model American

I'm afraid I know very little about these. I think it's a 2nd. Model American but the barrel patent markings end with Russian Model. There was a tag on this gun on which was written the serial number 12649 and .44 Rim Fire. I doubt it's a rare Rim Fire but I don't know.
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Old 07-03-2017, 12:18 PM
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Looks like a First Model Russian.
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Old 07-03-2017, 12:53 PM
Masterpiece Masterpiece is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Bowles View Post
I doubt it's a rare Rim Fire.
Hi Rick,

First of all...You're correct in assuming it not being one of the Rare Rim-Fires...Reason being it's actually a Center-Fire...Wrong Hammer for a Rim-Fire!!

Secondly...As far as the Model...From what I'm seeing I believe your Revolver to be...As I see Mike already made mention while I was typing...A First Model Russian and/or Old,Old Model Russian...Assuming all the Assembly Numbers Match...Barrel, Barrel Latch, Frame, Etc.!!

If everything I mentioned regarding the Assembly Numbers matches...Probably the easiest way of confirming it to be a First Model Russian...Is to check to see if there is a shelf present about 2/3 of the way down into one of the Charge Holes...If so it's chambered for .44 Russian....Being .44 S&W Americans have no shelf with Charge Holes bored straight through!!

Hope this helps for now...Or at least until Ed Cornett (opoefc) and/or Joe Lieper (jleiper) show up shortly to give you the Full Particulars!!
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Last edited by Masterpiece; 07-03-2017 at 03:17 PM. Reason: Clarify Model Designation!!
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Old 07-03-2017, 01:48 PM
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Ridge, rim, or shelf refers to what looks like a partial counter-bore in each chamber, with a slightly smaller diameter in the front than in the rear of the cylinder.

These were actually called Old Old Model Russians, since there were two succeeding models, Old Model Russian and New Model Russian. Dating these is beyond my capabilities, since the commercial guns were serial numbered in the same range as the Russian Contract guns. The Old Old Model Russian was manufactured from 1871 to 1874 and all should have stepped chambers as they were all using 44 Russian cartridge.

Nice to find these in original condition and not cut, caliber modified, or otherwise butchered. Hope your assembly numbers all match up. The right stock should have the serial number matching the one on the butt-frame.
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Old 07-03-2017, 01:54 PM
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Looks like a first model Russian to me. If the serial is 12649 that number should be on the butt and inside the right grip plate. There should be a master assembly number on the frame under the right grip plate. That number should match the number on the barrel extension, rear cylinder face and under the latch.
With that serial number it should have the flat tipped trigger and hammer activated cylinder stop.
If you could, please post pictures of the face of the frame where the firing pin comes through and the charge holes in the cylinder.
The Russian cartridge was very popular as it was much easier to reload than the 44/100 (American) cartridge with its heeled bullet. Commercial revolvers in 44 Russian were labeled with either the RUSSIAN MODEL stamp or if for military contracts with the REISSUE stamp (these were marked with full serial numbers, not assy numbers).
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Old 07-03-2017, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glowe View Post
These were actually called Old Old Model Russians, since there were two succeeding models, Old Model Russian and New Model Russian. Dating these is beyond my capabilities, since the commercial guns were serial numbered in the same range as the Russian Contract guns. The Old Old Model Russian was manufactured from 1871 to 1874 and all should have stepped chambers as they were all using 44 Russian cartridge.
The Russian Contracts had their own serial number series, the 1st Contract being numbered 1-20,000. By the time the commercial series reached 20,000 the revolvers were showing manufacturing/design changes that were already present in the 2nd Contract Russians being delivered at the time.
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Old 07-03-2017, 09:29 PM
Rick Bowles Rick Bowles is offline
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Thanks for the input. I'll post more images tomorrow. Until then, this revolver has matching assembly numbers (F 886) on the grip frame, rear cylinder face and under the latch. It is .44 Russian as the charging holes show the shoulder or shelf. I believe the front sight has been altered or replaced. The stocks appear to be old replacements as they are not numbered and the fit isn't what I would expect.
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Old 07-04-2017, 09:08 AM
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. . . I believe the front sight has been altered or replaced. The stocks appear to be old replacements as they are not numbered and the fit isn't what I would expect.
Thanks for the information, I had not noticed that your Model 3 was fitted with a "Colt" style front sight. Originals were round. If you have not taken off the stocks yet, do so to check for a serial number. It is true that the original fit of wood stocks were flawless, but shrinkage over 150 years, or a prior owner sanding and refinishing the stocks could have caused a change in fit.
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Old 07-04-2017, 01:34 PM
Rick Bowles Rick Bowles is offline
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Gary,

Here's an image of the recoil shield you asked for. The stocks are not numbered (stamped). If they were done in pencil they have long since worn off. I've also included an image of the that shows the charging holes and bore.

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Old 07-04-2017, 05:12 PM
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I believe that the recoil shield photo was requested by Joe, who is our Model 3 Russian expert. The stocks on the Model 3 would have been stamped, so likely a replacement set.
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