Frontier 32? This is what I have to go on...

TimInTexas · #1 08-08-2017, 07:10 PM

My dad is getting on in years and his memory fails him. He believes this is a .32 that has been in the family forever. Serial number is 7774. I know it's in rough shape, but it's still special to me. Any help with the true identity would be great!

murphydog · #2 08-08-2017, 07:21 PM

Welcome! This is a .32 Double Action from about 1881. It is common for older nickel guns to be in this condition, especially after being fired with black powder ammo. If it is mechanically sound current factory .32 S & W ammo (not .32 Long) should be safe to use. Hope this is helpful.

JSR III · #3 08-08-2017, 07:37 PM

Welcome to the forum.

Are you sure that it is a .32 caliber? IIRC the Frontier model is a .44 caliber. Can you post a photo of the rear of the cylinder and or the muzzle?

If it is a .32 caliber then it would be the .32 DA second model but I thought that they had a 3" barrel and yours looks to be longer. Measured from muzzle to cylinder face what is the length?

TimInTexas · #4 08-08-2017, 08:24 PM

Thanks for quick replies! The gun is with my brother and I've sent along the request for additional pics and measurements, but it may take a bit, as he travels. We've been told over the years that it is indeed a .32, so pretty sure on that. S&W serial number lookups have not been any help as far as actual date.

mmaher94087 · #5 08-08-2017, 08:41 PM

My decrepit computer makes that revolver look like a .38 S&W. So I'll say that you have a .38 Double Action, 2nd Issue, ca 1890.

Masterpiece · #6 08-08-2017, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murphydog

This is a .32 Double Action from about 1881.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSR III

IIRC the Frontier model is a .44 caliber.

To All,

Contrary to the OP's last posting...I believe His Revolver to be neither a .32 DA nor a Frontier Model DA!!

My belief is it's a 1st Model #3 .44 Dbl.-Action / NM #3 Navy...Main clues being the New Model 3 Style Lg.-Frame Barrel Latch & Short Model 3 Topstrap...All of which indicate this Revolver to be a Lg-Frame Model 3 Top-Break DA!!

I also believe when...Or if...The OP will post photos from the rear of the Cyl. showing the Chamber...You'll find it's a Chambered for the .44 Russian Cartridge!!

I've been wrong before...Although being as familiar with the Lg.-Frame Top-Breaks as I am...We'll see if my memory hasn't completely gone off the deep end...Ha!!~Ha!!

deadin · #7 08-08-2017, 08:56 PM

I'm pretty sure that what is pictured is a 44 DA
Check out the barrel latches on the following and compare to the OP's:

.32 Double Action 2nd Model:

.38 Double Action 2nd Model:

,44 Double Action Frontier

Masterpiece....
The latch on the 44 DA Russian and the 44 Frontier are the same. One way to tell them apart will be by the cylinder holes (straight through - Russian, throated = Frontier 44/40) OR, with the given serial number, by the cylinder length. 1 7/16ths = Russian, 1 9/16th = Frontier

murphydog · #8 08-08-2017, 09:00 PM

Photos with a ruler would help, but the cylinder stop notch location indicates it holds six rounds...so I bet Masterpiece is correct, a .44 Double Action.

Masterpiece · #9 08-08-2017, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadin

Masterpiece....
The latch on the 44 DA Russian and the 44 Frontier are the same. One way to tell them apart will be by the cylinder holes (straight through - Russian, throated = Frontier 44/40) OR, with the given serial number, by the cylinder length. 1 7/16ths = Russian, 1 9/16th = Frontier

Dean,

What I was referring to...Regarding the Barrel Latch...In general...Is it's the Style found on NM 3 Revolvers (NM Single-Actions as well as the .44 DA & .44 DA Frontiers)...Being it's a completely different looking Barrel Latch than those found on the Small-Frame Top-Break .32 & .38 Dbl.-Actions!!

To explain...Looking from the side...The Knurled area on New Model 3 Lg.-Frame Top-Break Latches kind of wraps around the side a bit....Whereas the Knurled area found on Small-Frame Top-Breaks is Round & Straight across the rear!!

Also...Regarding the Chamber Holes...Yes the .44-40 Chambers are somewhat "Throated" as you noted...But the .44 Russian Chamber has a " Notable Step" approx. 2/3 of the way down into the Chamber!! Hope this clarifies the point I was making!!

mmaher94087 · #10 08-08-2017, 09:39 PM

Agree. .44 DA. The trigger in the picture was the give away for me. So much for the .32 vs. .38 thinking. I find it difficult to leap from a .32 to a .44 but if one isn't bore size savvy..

deadin · #11 08-08-2017, 10:23 PM

Quote:

The trigger in the picture was the give away for me.

I completely overlooked the trigger...

Masterpiece · #12 08-08-2017, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmaher94087

The trigger in the picture was the give away for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadin

I completely overlooked the trigger.

Truth be told...Given I'd pretty much identified it before looking that closely...Didn't pay much attention to the Trigger...Good point though!!

JSR III · #13 08-09-2017, 07:48 AM

As Mike noted, if you look at the trigger on the frontier model near the top under the frame there appears to be a circle shape.

If you look at the photo of the .32 trigger this same hole is egg shaped.

The hole in the photo of the OP's gun is a circle.

Skeetr57 · #14 08-09-2017, 09:56 AM

You guys sure like to make things complicated! All you have to do is look at the cylinder flutes to tell that the gun in question is a six shot revolver, and only the #3 frame size had six chambers. All .32 and .38 top breaks were five shot guns. The barrel latch and trigger are different between the .44 frame guns and the others, but from a photo, the number of chambers is easier to see

Masterpiece · #15 08-09-2017, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeetr57

You guys sure like to make things complicated! All you have to do is look at the cylinder flutes to tell that the gun in question is a six shot revolver, and only the #3 frame size had six chambers. All .32 and .38 top breaks were five shot guns. The barrel latch and trigger are different between the .44 frame guns and the others, but from a photo, the number of chambers is easier to see

Tom,

C'mon...You're taking all the fun out of it...Taking the runaround way gives us a chance to teach the guys not familiar with these...More than 1 or 2 ways of identifying the differences...Ha!!~Ha!!

And Yes I agree...The location of the Cyl. Flutes is an easy way of noting the difference between Lg.-Frame Top-Breaks vs. Small-Frame Top-Breaks!!

Masterpiece · #16 08-09-2017, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeetr57

The barrel latch and trigger are different between the .44 frame guns and the others, but from a photo, the number of chambers is easier to see.

Tom,

In reference to your above quote about the Barrel Latches...Forgot to make mention of this in My Last Posting!! My main reason for specifically noting the Barrel Latch that's on the OP's Revolver in My 1st Post...Is that style Latch is only found on NM#3 Revolver Variants (Both Single & Dbl-Action)!!

To explain a bit further for those less familiar...Meaning when viewed from the side...The Barrel Latches found on the Earlier No.3 Lg.-Frame Models more closely resemble those found on Sm.-Frame Top-Breaks being the Latch in that view is round rather than the wraparound type found only on New Models!!

opoefc · #17 08-09-2017, 01:11 PM

Just turned on my computer and had to chuckle over all the above postings! That gun is a .44DA and should have been spotted as such right off the bat! Only resemblance to a .32 DA is that they are both S&Ws. Ed.

iby · #18 08-09-2017, 01:29 PM

how do you confuse a 32 bore with a 44?

JSR III · #19 08-09-2017, 07:34 PM

Quote:

how do you confuse a 32 bore with a 44?

Very easy if you've never been around guns before. Same reason that some folks call cartridges boolits.

Quote:

Just turned on my computer and had to chuckle over all the above postings! That gun is a .44DA and should have been spotted as such right off the bat! Only resemblance to a .32 DA is that they are both S&Ws. Ed.

That may be true if you've been around S&W antiques since before they were first invented but for those of us just starting our education in the pre hand ejector era, it is all still a little confusing.

TimInTexas · #20 08-09-2017, 08:00 PM

Wow! Thanks for the education! Now, what is the best guess as to what year serial #7774 was produced?

JSR III · #21 08-10-2017, 06:44 AM

This model was cataloged until 1913 with a beginning in 1886. Although the serial number range for this model starts at 1 and goes up to 15340, all of the frames were made prior to 1899 making all of these guns antiques regardless of when they shipped.

One must always remember with S&W's, for the most part, manufacture dates are unknown. There are a few folks that have foreman's day logs that will give the date that a particular gun was produced by serial number however they are few and far between and all of the gun books out there use the shipping date as the day the gun was born. S&W logged their guns in to a shipping log as a way of keeping track of their inventory going out the door and those records are the ones that the company and the company historian have always used to supply date information.

As stated above, all of the .44 DA Frontier model frames were made before 1899 (the ATF cut off date for determining antique status) so even if shipped as late as 1913, the guns are all considered antiques.

The ATF considers the frame as the gun and the reason that you can purchase any other gun part, barrel, cylinder, hammer, trigger without needing to go through a FFL holder. Once the frames were made, a serial number needed to be applied and the gun was born in the eyes of the ATF.

Since S&W used shipping dates, the ATF has always accepted that date as the born date as it was ALWAYS a date later in time than the actual manufacture date.

In reality, every S&W was actually BUILT before the shipping date by days, months and in some strange cases even years.