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Old 09-19-2017, 07:20 PM
Mitch5690 Mitch5690 is offline
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Default Imperial Russian S and W model 3

Hello! I'll admit I don't really collect commercial or even American weapons! However my journey finds me in the need to know valuations on a Loewe made S and W Model 3 for the imperial Russian army. It's in decent shape for its age, all matching and functions properly.

Figures the S and W forum would have the experts ��
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:22 PM
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Here's another picture!
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:23 PM
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Also M27RV for show and tell

Last edited by Mitch5690; 09-19-2017 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:46 PM
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There are not many who could answer the question. My assumption would be that a Russian military handgun collector would value the Loewe and S&W revolvers equally, or maybe even value a Loewe more. An S&W collector probably would not be very interested in a Loewe.
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Old 09-20-2017, 01:30 AM
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Better pictures and a serial number would be helpful. These are interesting, but no one cares!
Joe
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Old 09-20-2017, 06:23 AM
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I'm no expert but at least saying its a Russian Imperial Army weapon at least sounds exotic so I'm sure someone will be along to help .These guys are expert in everything S&W even clones just be patient.
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:02 PM
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Ludwig Loewe Production

The Russians were unhappy with Smith & Wesson selling revolvers to the Turks and the Japanese. The Turks were a traditional enemy of the Russians and the Japanese were emerging as a threat to the far eastern part of the Russian Empire. To solve this problem the Russians bought a set of inspection gauges for the 3rd model and made arrangements to have the revolver produced to those gauges at the Ludwig Loewe factory in Berlin. The Russians did not buy a license to produce these.
According to some sources production began in 1880, but it is more likely that it was 1877. This earlier date is confirmed by correspondence of General Gorlov. There were 2 contracts placed with Ludwig Loewe, the first for 70,000 revolvers (delivered 1877-78) and the second for 35,000 revolvers delivered 1880.
The 3rd Model (1874) as manufactured at Ludwig Loewe is called the Model 1880 by the Russians, even though it has the Model 1874 mark (обр. 1874) on the left side of the frame just like 3rd Model S&W manufactured revolvers. The barrel rib carries a Cyrillic address
Imperial Russian S and W model 3-100_2204-jpg
Людвигъ Левеи Ко. Берлинъ Германія. Ludwig Loewe Co. Berlin Germany
The face of the rib marking is just slightly different on the first contract and the second contract. This seems to be the only difference other than serial number range.

The inspectors/acceptance mark found on the Ludwig Loewe production is CO under an Imperial Eagle. Some sources say that his is a mark for Nikolai Kuchekevich, but this doesn’t make sense. Another theory is that the revolvers were accepted at the Sesroretsk Arsenal and in Cyrillic that would be CO.
Starting with the Ludwig Loewe revolvers the barrel latch is not numbered. This continued with production at Tula.
Production at Ludwig Loewe was terminated with the sale of the tooling to manufacture the revolver to the Russian Government in 1884.
Since the production of revolvers at Ludwig Loewe and Tula was made to original Smith & Wesson gauges, these revolvers are parts interchangeable with Smith & Wesson manufactured revolvers.
Joe
Better pictures and we can determine what its worth.
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:29 PM
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Here's another. Sorry having issues uploading pictures
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:30 PM
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................
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:31 PM
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Seems to only allow me to upload one at a time lol
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:32 PM
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One more here
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:33 PM
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And another
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:34 PM
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Yet again lol
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
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And another
Could i get a higher resolution picture like this one. I cannot see the marks. What is the serial number?
Joe
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Old 09-20-2017, 01:11 PM
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If I'm reading the numbers correctly, Joe, I make the SN as 133741.

Mitch, you can upload up to 5 per post. You do a repetitive, Browse/Select and Upload, Browse/Select and Upload...one file at a time but don't close the uploader window. When you have attached 5, then close the window. If you move the uploader window, you can see the attachments show up under Manage Attachments.
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Old 09-20-2017, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
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If I'm reading the numbers correctly, Joe, I make the SN as 133741.
That's part of the problem. Serials didn't go that high and I don't see a couple of other marks that should be there.
Joe
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  #17  
Old 09-20-2017, 04:21 PM
Mitch5690 Mitch5690 is offline
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The serial is 100781
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Old 09-20-2017, 05:40 PM
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That revolver is on my serial number list. Several European collectors and I keep serial number lists on these.
The marks you should see on the barrel are:
Roll stamp address, 2nd type: Людвигъ Леве и Ко. Берлинъ Германія.
the serial number preceded with the № symbol, then the Imperial eagle acceptance stamp over the inspector’s initials (CO on these), and finally a small letter ‘L’ which is an inspector’s mark. On the raised barrel area in front of the cylinder retainer screw is found a circled ‘П’ for acceptance.
On the left side of the frame above the grips should be the Russian mark "обр. 1874".

How much blue is left and does it have all those marks?
Joe

Last edited by jleiper; 09-20-2017 at 05:43 PM.
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  #19  
Old 09-20-2017, 07:34 PM
Mitch5690 Mitch5690 is offline
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It indeed has both those marks. I'd say the bluing is 80%
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Old 09-20-2017, 07:56 PM
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These are scarce and bring almost as much as true Smiths. I see them occasionally for around $2K but usually $2500-$3000. This is in 80% condition which is good for one of these, they got used!
Joe
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  #21  
Old 09-21-2017, 05:11 AM
Mitch5690 Mitch5690 is offline
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Thank you very much!
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