New Model 3 Australians & detachable stocks

model3sw · #1 10-19-2017, 07:12 PM

It is known that the first order New Model 3 Revolvers for the Australian Colonial Police of 250 revolvers with the 7" barrel were in the 12202 to 13199 (SCSW4) serial number range with stocks numbered likewise all broad arrow proofed.

The second order of 30 revolvers in 6.5" nickel have been very illusive. These were in the 23000 serial number range.

Of those 2nd order of 30 revolvers NONE were marked with the broad arrow. (SCSW4 reads as though ALL Australian Colonial Police revolvers were broad arrow proofed)

Both Ed Cornett and I have a 2nd order 6.5" Australian Police New Model 3. I purchased mine from an oldtime member, many decades ago. Norman Hall sold me my 2 Australians when his Dad (RIP) was very ill. His dad was one of the leaders and top collectors of this specific series of New Model 3s in the caliber of Ed Cornett and a few others.

The question is ... SCSW4 indicates these were supplied without stocks albeit the frames were cut to accept the stock.

The stock I received with my 2nd order Australian from Norman Hall, has no serial number stamped. This is what I have accepted as correct ... that there was basically no difference from the standard " off the shelf " stock for this second order of 30. No broad arrow proofed and numbered stocks were stamped in the 23000 range.

So, is there anything decisive to identify the 2nd order stocks and / or if stocks were, in fact NOT supplied or supplied afterward ?

The one stock supplied me with my 2nd order SN: 23xxx has only a series of "scores" (notches / strikes) under the area of the thumb wheel.

Anyone notice the same ?

Also found out I have more factory S&W stocks than guns cut for the stock.

mmaher94087 · #2 10-19-2017, 08:27 PM

I can't help. Mine was first order: 13075 frame with 12821 cylinder and 13198 stock. I wish these could be "made whole" again as Lawyer's say.

model3sw · #3 10-19-2017, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmaher94087

I can't help. Mine was first order: 13075 frame with 12821 cylinder and 13198 stock. I wish these could be "made whole" again as Lawyer's say.

That is the first report of a mixed number Australian Revolver I've ever heard. The Stock numbers never matched. I never met an owner of an Australian with a matching SN stock except Jaime in Australia who has a full set up with badge, loading tools, holster and pictures he purchased from the family of the original owner.

Back in the Day, Gary Garbrecht and I were trying to organize a list of owners of Australian SN Revolvers and Australian SN stocks ... in an attempt to mate the correct number Revolver and Stock. I had 5 at peak and Gary had about a dozen (give or take).

My early one from Norman Hall is 4 numbers off. The Revolver is xxx50 with stock number xxx54. That's the closest I've seen.

My 6.5" barrel, 2nd order of 30, is not broad arrow proofed and blessed by Ed Cornett. The stock is not proofed or numbered numbered at all.

Ed has a complete list of serial numbers, by shipping containers, of all the NM3 Australian Colonial Police that were imported from Australia sometime post WWII. Early 1950s IIRC ?

mmaher94087 · #4 10-19-2017, 10:50 PM

When these were first re-imported by the late Bob Neal, my father, John C. Maher, had a "complete" rig. All numbers matched, both holsters and a BATF Form that let him possess a 'short barrel rifle'. Unfortunately, while I was away at collage, he sold the whole rig for $750. As he later said, " I didn't think you were interested". Lesson: Say something or ask. I've tried to rebuild his collection ever since.

model3sw · #5 10-20-2017, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmaher94087

When these were first re-imported by the late Bob Neal, my father, John C. Maher, had a "complete" rig. All numbers matched, both holsters and a BATF Form that let him possess a 'short barrel rifle'. Unfortunately, while I was away at collage, he sold the whole rig for $750. As he later said, " I didn't think you were interested". Lesson: Say something or ask. I've tried to rebuild his collection ever since.

It has taken me near 30 years to accumulate 2 of the double flap scabbards / holsters for the revolvers and 3 extension stock scabbards. The 3 scabbards for just the stock are all nice enough but none pristine however the double flap revolver scabbard, one is nice enough the other has been repaired. Basically, I had to take them at whatever price I found them. I paid over $500 for the repaired double flap scabbard from a guy in Canada about 15 years ago and was glad to find it.

Having only 2 Australian Revolvers with extension stock, I have 1 extra scabbard for the stock if you need. I also have 3 more extension stocks than I have New Model 3s cut for stock. I just discovered this yesterday. Every time I found a stock or a holster / scabbard I purchased it if I could make the deal.

I'll try to get some pix up on those.

jhnttrpp · #6 10-20-2017, 07:54 AM

While I couldn't follow all of this conversation (a lack of knowledge on my part) I must admonish all of you for having such an interesting talk and not posting a single photo. I must assume you guys don't really have any of these guns.

model3sw · #7 10-20-2017, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhnttrpp

While I couldn't follow all of this conversation (a lack of knowledge on my part) I must admonish all of you for having such an interesting talk and not posting a single photo. I must assume you guys don't really have any of these guns.

Either that or some of us would rather not post photos.

JSR III · #8 10-20-2017, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Either that or some of us would rather not post photos.

Sal is this for privacy reasons or lack of knowledge on how to post photos? I can say from someone that has only recently become interested in S&W's made (BHE) before the hand ejectors, seeing photos of the items that you are discussing only helps to further my education. Since folks like you and Mike and Ed all know of what you speak, photos aren't really that important, however to those of us that are still learning or just beginning to do so, the photos would be a real big help.

Not to mention, since studying S&W's has become one of my life's real passions, photos from some of you masters would really help understand your discussions. FWIW

model3sw · #9 10-20-2017, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSR III

Sal is this for privacy reasons or lack of knowledge on how to post photos? I can say from someone that has only recently become interested in S&W's made (BHE) before the hand ejectors, seeing photos of the items that you are discussing only helps to further my education. Since folks like you and Mike and Ed all know of what you speak, photos aren't really that important, however to those of us that are still learning or just beginning to do so, the photos would be a real big help.

Not to mention, since studying S&W's has become one of my life's real passions, photos from some of you masters would really help understand your discussions. FWIW

Jim,

I have client case files all over my office / house. When I take a break by visiting the forum I don't have the luxury to start hauling out stuff, set it up, take some nice pix, crop and post them correctly.

That said, I feel it is better to have NO photos than BAD photos. I'm sometimes hesitant to post a "quick" picture.

The correct way to photography some of these is a project. Mark Calzaretta came to help me a few days. It averages between setting up, background, poses, take pix, transfer, edit, crop and post ... about 1 hour per item.

I don't do cell phone photos.

mmaher94087 · #10 10-23-2017, 09:34 PM

OK, there two formal requests to see an Australian rig. I hunted up these photos so that y'all know what Sal and I are talking about. First is the Australian Colonial Police NM#3, the fuzzy photo of the SN and Broad Arrow mark, the stocked revolver, the revolver in the double flap holster, shoulder stock with SN and Broad Arrow mark by tang screw next to a Std. NM#3 stock, the stock in the stock holster and a photo of the two types of holster rigging; one and two strap holes. These photos will take two posts minimum.

mmaher94087 · #11 10-23-2017, 10:15 PM

Oh Boy, Home movies: These are the last photos that I'll post tonight.

Simi-audamadik · #12 10-24-2017, 07:44 AM

This just goes to show, I got a LOT to learn.

Later!

Simi

jhnttrpp · #13 10-25-2017, 09:45 PM

Amazing, Thank you.