Help with identity of Top-break ... Model 3

handejector · #51 02-16-2018, 12:59 AM

I also believe Pam's gun wears the original finish.
I WOULD have the grip repaired, but only with real ivory. The proper craftsman can match the color. A fine seam will be visible, but it will look better than the half grip.
It'll also keep spiders from crawlin inside the gun.

gmborkovic · #52 02-16-2018, 09:30 AM

Who is the proper craftsman?

Norcal_lover · #53 03-23-2018, 05:07 PM

The first part of February I visited here and asked for help identifying a gun I had inherited from Grandpa. You folks had great comments, lively discussion about the finish, how the ivory grip might be repaired, and directed me to Roy Hinks, et al., to obtain documentation of the gun. The results are in and I have attached Roy’s letter and more pics of the
Model 3, Russian First Model, aka Old, Old, Russian. I’ll have more questions soon but wanted to post the letter.
Regards,
Pam

first-model · #54 03-23-2018, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norcal_lover

I’ll have more questions soon but wanted to post the letter.

Fantastic letter, and really neat that the gun was shipped to the west coast. An indisputable part of America's westward expansion.

Mike

model3sw · #55 03-23-2018, 06:45 PM

Congrats on that letter. Very nice. San Francisco shipped is not common. Many if not most went to NYC.

Norcal_lover · #56 03-23-2018, 06:47 PM

Thanks, Sal! I thought it was cool too.

Norcal_lover · #57 04-22-2018, 12:22 PM

Hiya. Many of you have helped me do some initial cleaning of Grandpa Osmer’s Model 3, Old Old Russian. I have yet another question regarding the conservation of this revolver:

I saw a recommendation here for use of Birchwood Casey blue&rust remover so tried it on a rusted part of the sideplate. The product (and assume similar such products) did a nice job of turning the Dark rust damaged metal into a silvery appearance. So, the question to you collectors: do I lighten the very significant dark rust damage on the barrel or do I leave it au natural?

I’ve learned: I attached a picture of treated sideplate and non-treated barrel. Again, thanks for guidance.

Pam

first-model · #58 04-23-2018, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norcal_lover

So, the question to you collectors: do I lighten the very significant dark rust damage on the barrel or do I leave it au natural?

I’ve learned: I attached a picture of treated sideplate and non-treated barrel. Again, thanks for guidance.

I wouldn't use it, but I value historic conservation over appearance. Removing the original blue (even if it is partially obscured by surface corrosion) removes original finish that can never be replaced, and IMHO that's a loss.

Mike

Wiregrassguy · #59 04-23-2018, 01:48 PM

Pam,
I thought you ordered the Blue Wonder Cleaner. That should remove the rust and leave any of the blue original finish. If you want to scrub it, get some bronze or copper wool (a pure copper Choreboy pad will also work).

mmaher94087 · #60 04-23-2018, 07:33 PM

I don't see a blue finish, only nickel. I, like Mike, tend to leave the finish "as-found". In my way of thinking, the as-found finish is a badge of honor. The finish is a testament of the use and history of the revolver. Everyone in the class doesn't get a trophy for excellence.

Norcal_lover · #61 04-23-2018, 09:10 PM

Thanks, Mike. Makes sense.
Pam

Quote:

Originally Posted by first-model

I wouldn't use it, but I value historic conservation over appearance. Removing the original blue (even if it is partially obscured by surface corrosion) removes original finish that can never be replaced, and IMHO that's a loss.

Mike

Norcal_lover · #62 04-23-2018, 09:50 PM

Thanks for tip, Guy.

As a weird tangential sort of question, I’m not sure those to whom I might leave this gun share my passion for its familial or historical significance. So, does anyone worry your loved ones will sell your collection to the highest bidder? Or does it matter since we will have ... moved on...? Ever since my dad passed two years ago, and having witnessed the disposition of some of his personal treasures, these sort of thoughts come up.

Pam

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy

Pam,
I thought you ordered the Blue Wonder Cleaner. That should remove the rust and leave any of the blue original finish. If you want to scrub it, get some bronze or copper wool (a pure copper Choreboy pad will also work).

mmaher94087 · #63 04-23-2018, 11:09 PM

Good question. I have but one #2 Army revolver that has any family link and it's from the Civil War. I wish to pass it to another family member with the history as I know it. If no family member is interested, then my survivors can deal with the disposal of the revolver along with the provenience that I provide. Many say: "If only this gun could talk". I think they can talk; if only through a brief summary of the curatorship from the one person that cherished the brief possession of the article.

Norcal_lover · #64 04-24-2018, 12:03 AM

Thank you for your thoughtful reply, Mike.

glowe · #65 04-24-2018, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmborkovic

Who is the proper craftsman?

That was covered on page two of the other thread that the OP started Grandpa’s Model 3 Russian First Model. Probably the most knowledgeable and skilled ivory restorer out there is Ivory Repair, Ivory Restoration, fineart-restoration.com They are located in South Texas.

glowe · #66 04-24-2018, 09:41 AM

Pam, I am curious if you have any knowledge of ancestors back beyond your grandfather? Knowing you are in California I was curious how far back your CA ancestors might go? Would it be a possibility that one of your direct ancestors could have purchased the revolver new in San Francisco??

raljr1 · #67 04-24-2018, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowe

Pam, I am curious if you have any knowledge of ancestors back beyond your grandfather? Knowing you are in California I was curious how far back your CA ancestors might go? Would it be a possibility that one of your direct ancestors could have purchased the revolver new in San Francisco??

Now that would be something special, for sure.

Norcal_lover · #68 04-24-2018, 11:18 PM

Hi Gary. Actually, another one of my obsessive compulsions is exploring ancestry.com. It would be great if I could report some exciting, specific connection to ... say ... Sancho Panza

however, Grandpa’s side of the family came in from Ireland 4 generations prior, planted crops and themselves in the Midwest, mostly Iowa. Grandpa Osmer and Grandma Lula came to California in 1957 (to keep an eye on their son-in-law). Grandpa’s brother was a gun collector in Illinois - Bat Masterson being an interest. Now you know! And your ancestry? Someone cool amongst your family tree limbs? Pam

Norcal_lover · #69 04-24-2018, 11:31 PM

Ps re grandpa’s Model 3, Old Old Russian,
I found this as an example of ivory stock repair on the site Gary recommended. Very cool. Nope, I have not contacted them yet. Pam

http://www.fineart-restoration.com/C...tored-Back.gif

glowe · #70 04-25-2018, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norcal_lover

Hi Gary . . . And your ancestry? Someone cool amongst your family tree limbs? Pam

I have the same passion to find my ancestry, since I have been researching my roots for several years now. Our family is fortunate that the majority of my ancestors came to this country very early, between Mayflower times and 1720. Our family is blessed with a rich history, starting with Francis Robert Eaton coming to America on the Mayflower and a Sixth-Great Grandfather named Daniel Boone. I have been able to document 5 Civil War, 30 Revolutionary War, 7 War of 1812, and 9 French & Indian Wars veterans in my direct ancestry line.

Since I was a child, I was interested in muzzleloading guns and now own & shoot several flintlock rifles, pistols and fowlers. Must have remained in the blood-line, but as far as any of them passing down family heirloom antique guns, I got stuck with a non-functioning double-barrel hammer shotgun and a Zulu single shot shotgun, converted musket that my grandfather bought for $1.50 from a neighbor. You certainly got me beat with your inheritance.

Norcal_lover · #71 05-02-2018, 05:43 PM

Hi Gary,
An embarrassment of riches! Ancestors on Mayflower And Dan’l Boone as Great x 6 Grandpa And Patriots represented in Every war since our revolution?!? I went to wiki and found Mr. Eaton’s story but my gosh, to read about Mayflower Compact, etc. Is reading about USA’d essence. How can this be? I’ve spent some time on Ancestry and all I got was a rock...!

You have flintlocks and fowlers. Of course you do! I think you should have your fortune read about your previous lives!

Regards,
Pam

first-model · #72 05-02-2018, 05:50 PM

Sadly, I wasn't able to inherit any firearms that were owned by my ancestors. But this character that helped settle Philadelphia is my 9th great grandfather, and this young lady -- my 7th great aunt -- sewed a rather famous flag.

At last count I had my family tree up to 4,200 well-documented individuals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norcal_lover

I’ve spent some time on Ancestry and all I got was a rock...!

Pam, genealogy is part art and part science. I've spent over 25 years on it, and I still consider myself something of a novice. In terms of hitting those "brick walls" ... the best advice I can offer is to persist. Sometimes clues about our ancestors hide in plain sight, and we only need ot stop looking for what we want to see, and instead focus on what is in front of us.

That, and it's good to remember that accurate spelling was not a "thing" in centuries prior. Be creative in the spellings of names that you search for!

Mike

mnrivrat · #73 05-12-2018, 07:39 PM

Just a quick note regarding Ivory. I have had a set of billiard balls still in their original wooden box that contained a label on how to care for the elephant ivory balls. The recommended preserving agent for cleaning was sperm whale oil.
Years back I bought this oil from Dixie Gun Works , but I have no present source. This is for your information only and I am not trying to recommend any specific care or use. The OP indicated that her sister has the missing piece of the stock. A good conservator may be able to rejoin the two in a proper manner.