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Old 03-04-2018, 12:40 PM
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Can someone tell me what details Charles Pates book on model 3 americans might tell me about mine? I have one of the first 1,000 and I wondered if the book would tell me anymore than Roy Jinks letter. I hate to buy a $50 book and not find anymore detail than I already know.
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Old 03-04-2018, 01:36 PM
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Are you referring to your revolver being one of the 1000 US military Model 3 Americans or within the first 1000 serial numbers?

The Pate book contains the words "American Model" in the title, so the entire book is devoted to the development and production of the 44 American. It contains detailed information on the competition of the era, the testing of Americans for the US military, the early production of the American Model, variations of the Model 3, and ammunition for the Model 3, patents for the Model 3. etc. There are, in total, 400 pages detailing the history of the Model 3, compared to a 1 1/2 page letter.

Bottom line is that you will never find a more detailed book dedicated to this model from one of the most respected S&W authors out there.
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Old 03-04-2018, 01:38 PM
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Just my opinion but anyone who owns one of the thousand should own the book to complement the factory letter. There is a wealth of information that goes into the story behind the model and your money invested will surely be well spent. I couldn't put the book down for days after getting my copy.

American serial number 1030 owner.
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Old 03-04-2018, 02:21 PM
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sspierce8, What you already know about your American model is a drop in the bucket about what you will know if you read the book. If a $50 purchase is a strain on your budget, I suggest you go to your public library , check out the book and read it for free. Factory letters on Americans are just the tip of the iceberg, as the records are hard to read and give little info., so Roy has to often improvise to complete a letter on an American. When I started collecting many years ago, a wise dealer/collector, Jim Serven, told me " Ed, when you get a gun, buy a book. Read the book. You will sell or trade the gun but what you learned from the book will stay with you throughout your collecting experience and pay off in spades." Boy, was he ever right ! Ed.

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Old 03-04-2018, 04:21 PM
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Ok. Thank you. I'm hoping to find specific information relating to the serial number. It is a US model, and a family hand down that the story says was issued to my great great great grandfather. I have not been able to confirm that. Not sure if the book would go to that level. I'll see if the library has it.
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Old 03-04-2018, 04:45 PM
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Mine is 1686.
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Old 03-04-2018, 09:11 PM
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Mine is 2150 and I own the book. I have no regrets in the purchase of either. My ownership has been enhanced by Col. Pate`s book. I also agree with the wisdom of buying a book with every antique gun acquired. The knowledge gained is priceless. Wormey
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Old 03-05-2018, 01:41 AM
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The Pate book is amazing in it's completeness and detail. I don't even own a Model 3 and I bought the book! In my opinion, that is how good it is!
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Old 03-10-2018, 05:37 PM
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Charles Pate's book on S&W American is a culmination of his 60 years (appx) of collecting and study. Did you know that USAF Col (retired) Charles Pate was the first one to discover the entire serial number list of the 1000 US Americans ?

He has extensive records on the surviving US serial numbers.
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Old 03-11-2018, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspierce8 View Post
Mine is 1686.
Hi. Nice find no matter what condition. I have been in touch with USAF Col (retired) Charles Pate, the author.

I have been supplying Col. Pate with data on US Americans and other US contract guns for over 25 years.

He informs me that your serial number 1686 is not one that is currently on the survivors list. I was asked to contact you to collect further data, if you are so inclined to offer it for the sake of historical record.

I can confidently state that once your US American is entered as one of the legitimate survivors it can do nothing but benefit you as the owner and if ever you resell it. Of course the originality and validation enhances the value primarily however condition is the premier factor in value.

I have written you a detailed email. Please review and reply to me via email address supplied. Thank you.

R.S. "Sal" Raimondi, Sr. S&WCA Life Member #1300
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Old 03-24-2018, 01:14 PM
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So through all our back and forth emails, I forgot to ask, counting mine that you have now verified, how many of the original 1,000 are documented to exist?
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Old 03-25-2018, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspierce8 View Post
Can someone tell me what details Charles Pates book on model 3 americans might tell me about mine? I have one of the first 1,000 and I wondered if the book would tell me anymore than Roy Jinks letter. I hate to buy a $50 book and not find anymore detail than I already know.
A nice, respectable, 100% correct U.S. American, now included in Author, Charles Pate's records. Bravo !
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Old 03-25-2018, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
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So through all our back and forth emails, I forgot to ask, counting mine that you have now verified, how many of the original 1,000 are documented to exist?
Of all the things I've asked Col. Pate over the years, I have not recently asked him the current count on the survivors of the 1000. Will follow up in a few days. I have yet to edit a few more of your photos to submit to Col. Pate but he has already commented on the originality of it. You've got a 100% original U.S. American. 1 of 1000. Also, it is not a serial number that Col. Pate previously had in his records of survivors and notes on current conditions of same. You have added 1 to the survivors list !

In short, the serial numbers on the butt of the frame and the grips match. The assembly numbers of the frame, cylinder, clasp and barrel also match. And the inspectors' stamps are all correct. With the data reviewed and affirmed, it is apparent that it "is" as it "was" the day it was placed in service excepting only (of course) the age, wear and current condition.

I think that deserves a round of applause.

As you have submitted photos to me in confidence, I have not posted any of those here. Perhaps you'd like to give the guys a treat by posting a few of the nicer, detailed pictures Some of the photos you sent me have such a large digital footprint, those may give you a bit of trouble uplaoding. Give it a try. If you have problems, I'll pitch in if you'd like.
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Old 03-25-2018, 05:21 AM
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Yes, please post some pictures of your American. Those of us who don't have one would like to enjoy it with you. But, don't try to post a large picture as the forum software will reject it. Reduce the size to no larger than 1920x1280 pixels and the software will accept it. It will reduce them further but at least you will be able to upload them.
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Old 03-25-2018, 04:22 PM
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I can't figure out how to attach more than 1 pic per post. I'm not the most tech savvy in the world. Here's a couple. Model3sw, you can post any pics you'd like. You have my permission.
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Old 03-25-2018, 04:25 PM
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One more. I don't want to post one at a time.
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Old 03-25-2018, 04:30 PM
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Ok, I'll do one more. Thanks everyone for the interest. One of these days I'll confirm that this was issued to my great great great grandfather as the family story goes. Good possibility it was a guy named Capt. George Leslie Browning, but I hae no way of confirmimg.
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Old 03-28-2018, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
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Ok, I'll do one more. Thanks everyone for the interest. One of these days I'll confirm that this was issued to my great great great grandfather as the family story goes. Good possibility it was a guy named Capt. George Leslie Browning, but I hae no way of confirmimg.
You have another shot like this with the assembly number (code) more visible. That's the photo you should use for your Avatar photo.
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:11 AM
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For those who don't know, Charlie Pate is retired USA (U.S. Army), not USAF, and a Vietnam War veteran. Thanks again for your service, CP!

David
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Old 03-28-2018, 12:48 PM
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If anyone is interested, a Colt featured on page 162 of Mr Pate's book sold at auction last week:

COLT MODEL 1861 RICHARDS-MASON CARTRIDGE CONVERSION REVOLVER US NAVY ISSUE, FORMERLY IN COLLECTION OF AUTHOR R. BRUCE MCDOWELL.

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Old 04-02-2018, 07:15 PM
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Default S&W American Model- First 1000

Can't add anymore that hasn't already been said about having a well round gun library if you are going to be serious about investing in the antique gun field. At today's prices, you better be educated about the purchase you want to make, or it can be costly! That being said, any book you can add to your library written & researched by Charles Pate is worth the investment, 10 fold. Research books, like anything else, you get what you pay for. IMHO, Charles is head & shoulders above his peers & he has personally contacted me about a rare Colt conversion that I have, that a total of 50 were modified by Colt. I collect weapons from the Post Civil War cavalry including a S&W Model 3 American & is one of 1000 purchased by the Army & does have the oil hole. I don't know if Charles has this number, but is free to add to his list. It is #830 and all inspector marks are present uncluding the tiny US on barrel.
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Old 04-02-2018, 07:21 PM
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Default S&W AmericAN - 1 OF 1000

Still haven't mastered posting pictures. One more time
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Old 04-02-2018, 08:32 PM
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Awesome! Welcome to the 1000 club. They'll likely want you to verify it all match's. Looks like mine, but mine doesn't have the oil hole.
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Old 04-03-2018, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
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Still haven't mastered posting pictures. One more time
Larry, If you'd like ... contact me privately so we can connect by email for details to present to Col. Pate. Thank you. Sal
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:28 AM
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Is this book still in print and available from the publisher/author or do you need to look for it on the secondary market?

IIRC, I purchased the guns of WW2 book directly from Mr. Pate and was able to have him sign it for me. I'll have to go check to make sure but that is what my memory is telling me. (It does sometimes lie to me)

Sal feel free to PM me if you have any details.
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
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Still haven't mastered posting pictures. One more time
Col. Pate has US American #830 recorded as one he had seen and/or examined at some time in the past. Thank you. Sal
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