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Old 03-26-2018, 01:36 PM
Norcal_lover Norcal_lover is offline
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Default Grandpaís Model 3 Russian First Model

I came knocking at your doors in early February looking for info. Following your guidance I contacted Roy Jinks and obtained a letter of specificity and early disposition of my revolver. Iíve attached the letter. My gun is what those in the know call an Old, Old Model Russian. Iíve attached a couple of pics that donít do it justice.

I have more questions but over-arching is that I really donít know how Ďspecialí this gun may be so I find myself waivering between treating the gun like a collector might (however the heck that might be) or simple cleaning and patching and returning to my living room wall. Similar models that I can find are mostly etched/engraved and pristine. And there were 20k sent to Russia so there must be lots still in circulation.

So, as crass as I might appear, can anyone tell me where I can get ballpark estimate of the value of my gun? I donít know if I should insure nor do I know how much $$$ is a reasonable amount to put toward conserving the gun.

Iíll stop here. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Pam
p.s. Yes, I started a new thread. Previous got too long for my retired brain to handle.
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Old 03-26-2018, 01:58 PM
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. . . so I find myself waivering between treating the gun like a collector might (however the heck that might be) or simple cleaning and patching and returning to my living room wall . . . And there were 20k sent to Russia so there must be lots still in circulation . . . So, as crass as I might appear, can anyone tell me where I can get ballpark estimate of the value of my gun?
First of all, glad you got that letter to be carried forever forward with the gun. Only issue of originality are the stocks, which were walnut and now are Ivory, but I do not think that is a big deal when valuing the gun, since Ivory stocks are almost impossible to come across for this model. A collector would do just as you suggest, wipe it down, lubricate the mechanism, and clean the bore and chambers. Collectors are a little like doctors who practice "do no harm".

This is not part of the 20,000 that went to Russia, but a part of only 5000 commercial Russian Models that were sold mostly in the US. As it turns out, the Russian contract guns are now much more rare than the Commercial guns. Almost all contract guns are gone, while the US commercial guns survive in greater numbers.

Value is subject to condition. Looking at your images, I would say that your gun is in the top 20% of all remaining Model 3 Russians out there, with maybe 80%+ finish. I would guess at "Fine" condition and that would mean the value could approach $5000 in value, based on the value of a Fine condition Model 3 2nd found in Supica/Neal SCSW4.
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Old 03-26-2018, 02:00 PM
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Thanks a great revolver with a lot of history. Do not have anyone conserve it. Take some gun oil on a clean cloth and wipe it down. Leave the finish alone. You'll ruin any value by refinishing it.don't take it apart. In other words, don't mess with it. Put it back on the wall.
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Old 03-26-2018, 02:03 PM
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Pam,
It is a valuable gun. I would not recommend hanging it on the wall. I'll let the experts give you an appraisal. But, unless I'm out to lunch, it will be well up in the 4 figures. You might want to take a sharp picture of the bore so they can see the degree of pitting. Shine a light through the cylinder and barrel to the muzzle and shoot down the bore from the muzzle.

(I type too slow. I see I was thinking like Gary. Scary!)
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Old 03-26-2018, 06:50 PM
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But, unless I'm out to lunch, it will be well up in the 4 figures
Very neat gun. If the above is true, would you take $88.88 for it?????
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Old 03-26-2018, 07:47 PM
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Hi James the Third!

Sorry, Iím using it as a door stop!

Thanks for Renaissance Wax tip. It helped revive those sections that looked like gray paint. BTW, Iím comfortable that the nickel finish looks like ... um ... shiny chrome. Lots of examples out there.

Pam
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Old 03-26-2018, 07:56 PM
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Hi Guy, the wiry grass guy!
Iím trying again. Took couple of pics down barrel but seems to be ... impossible? Anyway, a couple of the chambers have some rust damage. Not sure if thatís what you mean by pitting.
Regards,
Pam
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Old 03-26-2018, 08:21 PM
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Hi Gary!

Oh, maybe closer to 65-70% of finish remains. Grandpa was a horse riding ranch hand/cowboy and I think he wore it. So, looks like holster rubbed the finish off the barrel along ... hmm... at 3:00 and 9:00 of the barrel.

Additionally, when I pull back the hammer, nothing holds it in the cocked position awaiting the pull of the trigger. And, I think it should...? So, does one repair with non-original parts? Which leads back to question of conserving it or just taking very special care of it. (I’m almost positive grandpa held the ivory grip together with Elmer’s wood glue.)

Oops! Battery gone! Gotta run. Thanks again!

Pam

The gun was originally sent from S&W to N. Curry and Brother in San Francisco in 1873. The business was inherited by Nathaniel & John from brother Charles in 1863, so it appears the Irish immigrant brothers ran their business through the later part of the California Gold Rush and beyond. By the by, the Curry Brothers had special contracts with Henry Deringer in Philadelphia, the makers of the original derringer. You will see “N Curry,” “Curry Brothers,” etc etched on many derringers.
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Old 03-26-2018, 09:34 PM
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Pam, "..nothing holds it in the cocked position..". My response goes back to your hesitancy to remove the Ivory stocks; I would recommend very carefully removing them and flushing the hammer/trigger mechanism area with a good solvent. An aerosol spray like PB Blaster, Break-free, or even an automobile brake cleaner applied liberally to the 'guts' of the revolver will flush 100+ years of stuff out of the action. Flush and operate the action; flush again. And again. While this may not solve the problem; it doesn't require taking Grampa's revolver apart, more than removing the ivories, and the aerosol solvent is a cheap fix ($10) if it works. The revolver will need oiling after the solvent bath. If you have an aerosol can of compressed air that is used for dusting your computer keyboard then use it to dry the revolver's internals before oiling. I feel you are becoming the conservator of this revolver by default.

"So, does one repair with non-original parts?" Original part exist but are few and far between and often expensive. There are very limited resources available that might either have parts or have the ability or patience to make the parts. Try the 'flushing-with-solvent' first as the revolver doesn't look to have ever been abused to need a part.
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Old 03-26-2018, 10:02 PM
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I have some hammers and triggers that I covet like gold, however, if you can identify the exact problem I might be able to help with parts.

If the hammer stops have been filed, both the hammer and trigger are beyond the point of no return, means you need to replace them both.

Don't fiddle with it if you don't know what to do or you do not have the proper hollow ground screwdriver blades or tools (e.g. a pin pusher) and especially NOT if your patience gets exhausted quickly.

HOWEVER, if you feel confident of your abilities, remove the side plate, clean the inside as Mike Maher stated, only difference is the sidle plate is removed now so you'll be better able to spray down and clean the "innards".

Do not remove the sideplate if you don't know how. Do not remove the side plate before you ask for instructions. DO NOT PRY THE SIDEPLATE OFF ... NOT EVER !!
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:24 AM
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Pam, if you do take off the side plate but are not comfortable removing the stocks, you can still clean out the innards but do it a little more carefully.

Position the gun so that the stocks are higher than the frame and gently place your favorite degunking recipe into the area under where the plate was. A spoon or an eye dropper might allow you to place the liquid without fear of it migrating toward the stocks. After letting it sit for a while, gently blow it out with a can of air as Mike suggested making sure to not blow it in the direction of the stocks. Once dry, replace the cleaner with some oil and the internals should function a lot better.

If the trigger or hammer are worn so as to not function, you can either replace them or have one of the restoration welding shops add back some metal. The second option requires a lot of filing and shaping and one would need to know what an original part looked like in order to make the duplicate.

Perhaps someone here would be willing to send you a tracing of an original part to work from if you chose to go in that direction.
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Old 03-27-2018, 10:46 AM
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Lets see, you cannot properly clean the mechanism without taking off the sideplate, you cannot take off the sideplate without taking off the stocks. The revolver could well have not been cleaned for 100 years and all oils and greases will have totally hardened and could well have bound up the mechanism. It could be that the gun needs a total cleaning and it will work again. Who does it is the question? Personally, there are only two ways to be sure that the screws and sideplate will come off. First, many will mix acetone and automatic transmission fluid and soak a gun for a week. Of course, the stocks will have to come off first. The second way is to take it to a gunsmith with the proper tools to totally disassemble the mechanism and clean each part by hand. I would not use the soaking method on nickel plated guns, because of the concern that you could loosen more of the plating.

To remove the sideplate, you almost certainly will need to tap the butt-frame with a plastic hammer in order to dislodge the sideplate, and once again removing the stocks first. So once you can see the inside, there is still no way to assure that spray cleaners will remove all the dried oils and debris, that accumulated perhaps for the last 145 years, from the small recesses that surround the springs inside. For future preservation, I will say once find a gunsmith and have the mechanism professionally cleaned and oiled to preserve a very special revolver. I would be almost certain that if you checked with a few gun shops, you could find a qualified gunsmith in your area to do the job.

One note for those who might be interested in my method of removing stuck stocks. I totally agree with those who say do not hammer on the screw, or hammer the opposite stock with anything to remove the stocks. I use a single edge razor blade that has worked for me many times. Starting at the base of the stock, insert the very thin blade into the crevice between the stock and frame and push in. You can lightly tap the razor blade if needed. Now work up the back and front of the stock until it comes loose. Never pry with anything, since that is the way most stocks are broken out around the pin that holds the base of the stocks in place. Lastly, using the razor blade, make sure you can push it in at the bottom of the stock until you feel the pin. Insert a second blade if needed at that same location which will push the stock off the pin. Slow and easy is the best approach, but if done using this method, it will be very unlikely to cause any damage whatsoever. The blades can be found in hardware stores or on Amazon.
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Old 03-27-2018, 10:54 AM
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Gary, in photo number 2 it does not appear that the side plate is covered by the stocks???????????

Hence my suggestion.........
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:38 PM
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Thanks so much for continued guidance. Itís very instructive to Ďhearí how collectors think. And because of those comments I feel more comfortable taking Ďownershipí of grandpaís heirloom.

So, more pics in the morning light! As you can see (I hope), the broken ivory grip is held to the screw by a lick, a prayer, and crud. I fear manipulation of the grip will break the ivory. However, because the grips arenít original, that would not be devastating, however the current the grips are how I think of my revolver.

So, it appears that I might be able to pull the side panel by removing one screw (she said optimistically). If cleaning the exposed area doesnít fix the hammer issue... oh, crossing one river at a time!

Iíll try to remove panel when Iím in my favorite California Zen place!

Pam
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:55 PM
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Pam, All the above advise has merit and I have "revived" many a similar S&W in the years past, using most of those techniques. I do emphasize that you must be careful removing the stocks if they are in any way glued to the frame. Do not soak the gun in any bath with the stocks attached, as the ivory can be damage by chemical baths. The side plate should be removed for the best results if irrigating the action with solvents. Follow the removal technique suggested above. If you don't have one and need a schematic drawing of the parts and assembly/disassembly of this model, send me a PM with your address and I will mail you a set. Ed.
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:09 PM
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Thanks, Ed. Appreciate the offer. Pam
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:19 PM
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Gary, in photo number 2 it does not appear that the side plate is covered by the stocks???????????

Hence my suggestion.........
I use the butt-frame to tap on in order to jar the sideplate loose and cannot do it without removing the stocks. That is the best place for me to hammer on without damage to the finish, so it is my normal technique to get the sideplate off.
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Old 03-27-2018, 03:00 PM
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Pam,
Thanks for the pictures of the bore and cylinder chambers. They actually look pretty good for a gun that old that digested black powder. But, I recommend cleaning them and other places on the gun that look rusty with a cleaning product called Blue Wonder Gun Cleaner. It will remove the rust but leave the finish alone...even on a blue gun.

I recommend removing the cylinder from the center pin before cleaning. That way you can work on the bore from the rear of the barrel and not accidentally damage the muzzle. There is a cylinder catch screw on the top strap just in front of the barrel catch. That should be loosened to lift the cylinder catch up so the cylinder can be unscrewed and pulled backward off the center pin. You can see the cylinder catch which is an L shaped plate under the latch that is screwed down until its lip drops behind the cylinder and forms a stop to prevent if from being pulled off the center pin. As you loosen the screw, the catch will lift up and allow the cylinder to move rearward. Just grasp the cylinder and pull it rearward then unscrew it from the center pin...turn left to loosen, right to tighten it when you put it back.

Blue Wonder has several videos on YouTube that show how to use the cleaner on the bore to remove lead, powder and copper residue. You basically apply it to a bore brush then run the brush up and down the bore 7 times then let sit for 15 minutes. I would do this for all the cylinder chambers as well. It's a lot easier to clean the cylinder when it is out of the frame. Then, push a balled up paper towel through the bore/chambers until all the cleaner and gunk are removed. (When you push the towel through, make sure the paper wad exits over an old cloth or some paper to catch the gunk that comes out.) Once clean, put a light coat of oil on the bore/chambers with an oiled cotton patch and it'll be good to go hold your doors open.

Frankly, I hesitated writing this because we are giving you so much information. It's really a lot easier than it sounds even though you might feel like you're drinking from a fire hose.
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Old 03-27-2018, 03:54 PM
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Blue Wonder on order! Not sure about removing cylinder (tho I needed your careful instructions because i wondered how I would do it).

I removed the side plate by removing the 3 screws, pulled back trigger, and persuaded it to release. It did fairly easily.

More pics!
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Old 03-27-2018, 04:03 PM
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Nice job. Surprised that the screws came out so easy and that the sideplate came off without any trouble. Your image clearly shows lots of debris and dried lube as suspected. Again, it could use a good spray with a solvent, but not with the stocks on the gun. So what is your plan from here? I would still get take stocks off before going into the cleaning mode. Did you state that you have or can get the other half of the broken stock?
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Old 03-27-2018, 04:30 PM
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What’s my plan, indeed....

By “good spray solvent,” are we talking about products such as CLP or Ultra-Klenz? Or the home grown combo of favorite products?

So, I think it was James who got me thinking that I could do a decent job cleaning the internals with grips in situ. If cleaning doesn’t rectify the hammer cocking issue, guess I’ll start looking for a trust-worthy gunsmith to clean.

I’m still waiting for a relative to provide the piece of ivory that broke free from grip quite a while ago. Everyone has a story....
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Old 03-27-2018, 04:34 PM
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Surprised that the screws came out so easy and that the sideplate came off without any trouble.
No kidding! I've got a 1874 Commercial Russian that I can't get the screws loose even after soaking it for a week in ATF.

Really good job, Pam! That baby is screaming to be disassembled and cleaned. You can probably get a lion's share out with aerosol brake cleaner and some brass brushes, but the hammer really needs to come out so you can clean behind it. Again, it isn't hard and you seem pretty fearless. But I know guys that wouldn't have gone as far as you have.
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Old 03-27-2018, 05:32 PM
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The method of removing the hammer involves removing the mainspring and, again the stocks should come off . . . does it seem to be a theme? Loosening the tension screw on the front bottom of the butt=frame will relieve the tension on the spring, allowing it to be removed from the small stirrup at the rear of the hammer. Once that is done, you can retract the hand from the slot in the frame and pull the trigger to the rear and the hammer should come out. Every gun I work on involves taking pictures as I disassemble the mechanism in case something falls out or off. Once the hammer is out, you can use either of the products you mention and a toothbrush to loosen the crud and continue to spray and scrub until clean. Barricade or other synthetic oil can be then sprayed on the internals and the revolver is ready for reassembly.
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Old 03-27-2018, 06:05 PM
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Gary, You think I should remove grips? Is that an earthquake or did you just rock my world?!? ... ... ... Iím attaching a photo showing the grip hanging on to screw w about quarter inch of ivory. And have I mentioned that this is the first gun Iíve ever worked on? And where are the women on this thread? Sheesh.
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Old 03-27-2018, 06:25 PM
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I been asking in the past where are the s&w Russian revolvers hiding. I’m surprised we haven’t seen any imported back to the USA. The Zara son ordered some in nickel finish lucky us if we find one.
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Old 03-27-2018, 06:29 PM
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Having the gun lettered is important. I need to get mine lettered.
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Old 03-27-2018, 06:39 PM
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As soon as you add the word "Grandpa" to the item description the value meter tips the scale to priceless.
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Old 03-27-2018, 07:03 PM
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An ďamenĒ from the chorus!
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Old 03-27-2018, 07:11 PM
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If you have not tried to remove the stock screw, put a drop of light oil on the threaded end and let it set for a day. Try to turn the screw to see if it spins the escutcheon in the broken stock and if not, remove the screw. Use the single edge razor blade technique and the stocks should come off without much trouble. At least you do not have to worry about getting a lot of solvent on the ivory that way and you may be able to remove enough crud with a blaster and toothbrush to get the mechanism working again. You know, one small step at a time.

I hope you will be able to find the other half of the left stock.
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Old 03-27-2018, 07:31 PM
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Great approach, Gary. Thank you. Sorry if I got snippy earlier. I’m a bit of a nervous nelly when it comes to this gun. Sigh.
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Old 03-27-2018, 08:48 PM
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A drop of penetrating oil like Liquid Wrench may help. The BIG unknown is whether or not the grip screw is rusted to the escutcheon in the ivory. The key to success is patience, patience and more patience. Let the oil soak for a while (like three days) before trying to remove the screw. It is very important to not get any oil between the escutcheon and the ivory as that sliver of ivory is the only thing that keeps the escutcheon from spinning (and not coming loose from the screw). Wipe off any residual oil before trying to remove the grip screw just incase it wants to drip or run on the ivory. When you try to loosen the screw; watch the escutcheon and if it moves, STOP! We'll have to go to plan B.

Two things come to mind: In your photo of the broken grip and frame; it looks as if the locating pin (center of the bottom of the frame) has been removed at some point in the past. There is a hole there but I don't see a pin. Most often this pin will chip/break the bottom of the grip from improper removal such as prying from the top of the grip.

Secondly, from my experience with ivory (Elephant, Walrus and Mastodon); your grips look as if they checked from age (they dry out) and, through use, collect debris like skin oil in the checking. The debris works like a wedge and, at some point, causes the ivory to fracture along the grain like a piece of wood. A small bump might be all it needs to splinter. Your photo of the fractured edge shows the browning of the checked area that led to the fracture and the clean yellow-white of the fractured surface. I believe these ivory grips can be repaired (depending on the condition of the missing piece).

Lastly; NICE WORK!
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Old 03-27-2018, 09:43 PM
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Mike,

I would have lead with, “Given my experience with MASTODON ivory....” Care to elaborate?

Is anyone on this tread a professional gunsmith? Or, can anyone direct me to a schematic of the internals of this Model? I see why the trigger isn’t catching in position but not sure cause. Whatever spring or piece that is supposed to keep trigger under some pressure to return to slightly forward position isn’t doing its job. (Dontcha love it when I talk w all these tech terms?)

Still Pam
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Old 03-27-2018, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Norcal_lover View Post
Blue Wonder on order! Not sure about removing cylinder (tho I needed your careful instructions because i wondered how I would do it).

I removed the side plate by removing the 3 screws, pulled back trigger, and persuaded it to release. It did fairly easily.

More pics!
OUCH !!! I copied, rotated and enlarged your photo of the open side plate. It appears as though the stops on the hammer were filed fairly deep.

On all Model 3s ... if a tenured gunsmith is worth his salt, it can be lightly resharpened with the proper India stones but just once, if it had never been repaired prior.

if sharpened with stones (and not filed) the hammers usually won't take a 2nd sharpening. Of those I have repaired (from original configuration) it's amazing how little effort with a good quality India stone it takes to bring the steps (or full hammer back step only) back into proper working order. The repair is almost invisible if performed properly.

However, the moment the hammer stops are touched with a file, that finishes it. Although you may get it to function once filed, it will never again function properly until the hammer and trigger are replaced or repaired.

Very few gunsmiths have the ability to weld on, then trim back near factory specs.
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Old 03-27-2018, 10:37 PM
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With all the junk in the action, it's hard for me to tell. But with your description it might be that the trigger return spring is missing or broken. Without beating a dead horse any more than we have; without the grips off it's hard to tell what's wrong. I suggest that you apply forward pressure to the trigger (towards the sight, on the front end of the barrel) as you cock the hammer of the revolver. If it stays cocked; your problem is the trigger return spring.

As for the ivory; it is antique. My late father, a Geologist, collected it from all over the world when he worked for the U.S. Geological Survey and many oil companies. The Mastodon ivory came out of Alaska and Canada when we lived there. The Mastodon ivory is a brownish color and not particularly good looking in my opinion. The Eskimos carved it and it was often used in Chess sets; Walrus ivory was lighter and on one side and Mastodon for the opposing side. Ivory is like finger nails and hair; mostly protein that grows similar to wood, and with a grain. Like wood, it dries with age and will split. I'm sure that if you look at the ivory grips on your revolver that you will see the 'grain'.
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Old 03-27-2018, 11:05 PM
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Pam, I am completely impressed with your persistence on this. We do have some women here that are collectors, but I don't think anyone has the older guns like you're dealing with. If they did I'm sure they would have weighed in by now. And I totally respect the women that collect firearms. It's a very small fraction of the Collector community that are female. I encourage you to continue to work on this gun because you will really respect it more as you learn how to maintain it and upgrade it.

I believe if you can get the grip screw out, you can reach underneath the fractured grip panel and lift it off. Then it would be simple to just push the left panel off through the frame. When you get the piece that has broken away I'm sure that you can have it repaired so that it can go back on the gun. You likely will never shoot this because ammo is not made commercially and is difficult to make yourself. So, the grips just need to be stabilized so they don't fracture through casual handling. They have tremendous provenance with the gun and I believe they should stay on the gun if possible.

Be patient. You're doing great so far. And I think everyone here want you to be successful in getting this gun restored as much as possible.

Guy
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Old 03-27-2018, 11:34 PM
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I didnít think I could get away from providing another of my Ansel Adamsesque photos or 3. First and third photos different angles of hammer at Ďrestí and second shows what it should look like with hammer back. I had to use my fingers to pull the trigger towards end of barrel for the um lock to engage.

Interesting background and interesting Ivory 101 lesson. Thanks!
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Old 03-27-2018, 11:52 PM
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Mike, et al.,

Iíve attached photo of most-telling damage of dehydration (as Iíve recently learned. It does remind me of wood splitting.

You guys are providing so much info brain starting to leak out ears. I need to think about what Iím trying to accomplish!

Night!
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Old 03-28-2018, 12:15 AM
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I didnít think I could get away from providing another of my Ansel Adamsesque photos or 3. First and third photos different angles of hammer at Ďrestí and second shows what it should look like with hammer back. I had to use my fingers to pull the trigger towards end of barrel for the um lock to engage.

Interesting background and interesting Ivory 101 lesson. Thanks!
Being it is not an official bullseye target gun, you may just be able to make the parts you have work for you.

Everything looks so much better when it's clean

The Model 3s seem to have timing and sequencing issues that become more prominent, incrementally, the deeper the stops on the hammer are cut.

Spend a few $ and get it to a good gunsmith.

Ask here, in the forum, for referral advice to have it examined by qualiifed gunsmith who works on these specific model S&Ws.
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Old 03-28-2018, 03:57 AM
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Great gun, and you have guts. Thanks for sharing the story and letting us all learn from the Pros. Only advice I can add is to use the proper-fitting screwdrivers, and listen to these guys. Let them help you find someone qualified working on these old gems.
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Old 03-28-2018, 01:00 PM
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Great gun, and you have guts. Thanks for sharing the story and letting us all learn from the Pros. Only advice I can add is to use the proper-fitting screwdrivers, and listen to these guys. Let them help you find someone qualified working on these old gems.
Thanks for screwdriver tip!

Yes, Iím hoping others are paying attention to this thread. Rather extraordinary advice from the Prod. One might say, historic. Pam
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Old 03-28-2018, 01:23 PM
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Thanks for screwdriver tip!

Yes, Iím hoping others are paying attention to this thread. Rather extraordinary advice from the Prod. One might say, historic. Pam
that would be ďfrom the Pros.Ē [ed.]
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Old 03-28-2018, 09:50 PM
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Hello friends,

The phrase ďIgnorance is blissĒ comes to mind. I was able to remove the ďgrip screw.Ē Olive oil did the trick. I only removed the broken grip and left other in place. Is my next step to use the straight-edged razor technique?

Yup, pics included, you crazy guys.

Pam

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmaher94087 View Post
A drop of penetrating oil like Liquid Wrench may help. The BIG unknown is whether or not the grip screw is rusted to the escutcheon in the ivory. The key to success is patience, patience and more patience. Let the oil soak for a while (like three days) before trying to remove the screw. It is very important to not get any oil between the escutcheon and the ivory as that sliver of ivory is the only thing that keeps the escutcheon from spinning (and not coming loose from the screw). Wipe off any residual oil before trying to remove the grip screw just incase it wants to drip or run on the ivory. When you try to loosen the screw; watch the escutcheon and if it moves, STOP! We'll have to go to plan B.

Two things come to mind: In your photo of the broken grip and frame; it looks as if the locating pin (center of the bottom of the frame) has been removed at some point in the past. There is a hole there but I don't see a pin. Most often this pin will chip/break the bottom of the grip from improper removal such as prying from the top of the grip.

Secondly, from my experience with ivory (Elephant, Walrus and Mastodon); your grips look as if they checked from age (they dry out) and, through use, collect debris like skin oil in the checking. The debris works like a wedge and, at some point, causes the ivory to fracture along the grain like a piece of wood. A small bump might be all it needs to splinter. Your photo of the fractured edge shows the browning of the checked area that led to the fracture and the clean yellow-white of the fractured surface. I believe these ivory grips can be repaired (depending on the condition of the missing piece).

Lastly; NICE WORK!
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Old 03-28-2018, 09:55 PM
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I think Iíve double-posted, so this would make a triple-post but still trying to send dang photos. Thank you for your patience. Sigh.

Pam
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:39 PM
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YES!!!! The stock came loose. Pop the Champaign cork(s).

The protruding locating pin at the bottom center of the butt holding the other grip panel is now your big concern. Gentle finger pressure on the remaining ivory, from the inside, just above that pin will release the remaining grip panel. Or, if it is ornery, while holding the revolver in one hand with the stock panel facing down over a soft towel, a gentle tap on the exposed pin with a tack hammer or the butt of your screwdriver will probably pop the panel off. With the stocks removed, you can now clean the revolver without worrying about damaging the stocks.
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:47 AM
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My experience says please DO NOT push the stock from the back without holding the top of the stock to prevent it from coming loose at the top and twisting on the pin. Please don't "tap" on the stock since it may come apart. Gentle coaxing will do the trick. The single edge razor blade is only .009" thick and will easily slip between the stock and frame once it is done all the way the stock will be totally free from the frame. Add blades at the base to gently move the stock off the pin and don't forget to breath.
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Old 03-29-2018, 02:13 PM
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Is my next step to loosen/remove the screw at the bottom of the grip?

And then to very gently work on getting the ivory grip to release from the frame by using razor blades and extraordinary care as to not torque any part of ivory?
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Old 03-29-2018, 05:02 PM
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If you are referring to the large screw on the very bottom of the butt-frame, you do not need to remove it. That is a filler for the threaded hole where the lanyard would have been installed on a military Russian. The screw in the front lower section of the butt-frame is the tension screw for the mainspring and that also should remain in place while removing the screw.

Go to post #12. The option to try first is remove the stock by pushing it out as Mike explained. Holding the gun with the open side up, secure the top of the opposite stock with one hand from coming out of the frame while pushing at the base of the stock with your finger. If it comes off that way, great, if not go to #12.
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Old 03-29-2018, 06:14 PM
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Success! Thank you Gary and Mike! I removed both ivory stocks without damage. Oh my gosh! ... ... This is sort of like those people in the Artic who have to perform surgery with instructions coming over the phone....

I would ask about the need to remove the cylinder to clean but my nerves need a rest. Iíll work on cleaning that which I can reach and wait for the magical product Blue Something to come in mail. (I really hope that Grandpa Osmer approves of all this!)

As always, your comments/instructions are invaluable.

Pam
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Old 03-29-2018, 09:41 PM
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I think our Specialty is Mail-Order Brain Surgery; made simple. Got a hacksaw? Or was that proctology? I forget. Take a rest; you have done wonderfully. I predicted that you'd be the conservator of Grandpa Osmer's revolver.

If you wish to refurbish Osmer's revolver to a totally working 140 year old workhorse; you will need to replace the hammer as it has been abused (as model3sw stated). From your posts; I believe your trigger return spring is missing or broken. Additionally, I cannot see the end of the Hand (the lever that sticks out to revolve the cylinder) and can only suspect that it might be abused as well. These two go hand-in-hand with the trigger and fail together from abuse. I will venture the opinion that the trigger is correct and unmolested. I can only offer the known sources for these parts and say: Good Luck. Where do you wish to go from here?
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Old 03-29-2018, 11:10 PM
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If Mrs ever leaves me, I'm looking this lady up. Damned impressed!
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