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Old 05-31-2018, 04:16 PM
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Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips  
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Default Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips

Recently I saw a nickel 38 S.A. second model revolver with red mottled stocks for sale on line. This particular set of stocks had the SW block letters for the logo which is unique. The serial number was in the early 53,000 range. I recalled seeing other S.A. nickeled guns with red mottled carring the SW block letters online so I searched the internet. Found another four 38 S.A. guns with these stocks, making five in total. The serial numbers were in the 27,000 range for a blued one, nickel in the 47,000 range, another nickel in the 53,000 range, one nickel in the early 54,000 range, plus the original one in the 53,000 range. Everything I have read indicates the red mottled stocks were only installed on blued .

The question is did Smith and Wesson install red mottled stocks with the SW block logo for a short time on S.A. second model nickel guns? Wish I had them in hand to look for the serial number under the right stock.
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:50 PM
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Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips  
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The intertwined S&W logo was not designed when that gun was made. There was a very short time when the second model had block letter stocks, since this model started production in 1877. Gustave Young designed the intertwined S&W Logo in 1879, so anything made before that date had a different logo. I have a Commentary on hard rubber stocks for early S&Ws that cover this issue, but cannot open it right now, so the link would not work for you either. Both the 32 SA and 38 SA had hard rubber stocks that precede the logo we are now used to seeing. I have a couple sets of black block letter stocks, one on an early 38 SA 2nd that was manufactured in 1878.

What is interesting is that the design of the red stocks are different than what I have, so think the red mottled stocks were introduced later than mine and just before the Young logo was designed.

I knew that I forgot something. Serial number 55,XXX shipped in 1880, so 53,XXX would have probably shipped very late, maybe the same year that Young's logo was adopted.
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Old 05-31-2018, 05:40 PM
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Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips  
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Red, blue, green, ivory, MOP, bone, or black rubber, who cares. They are all
neat to have on a S&W. Wink!.
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Old 06-01-2018, 09:37 AM
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Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips  
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Gary, I understand that grips were also made in yellow, green & blue mottled. I have only seen a picture of one green mottled stock and normally only see the red mottled. Can you tell us if there were any other colors, and any reason the other colors are so scarce?
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:07 AM
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Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips  
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It was once opined that some dyes used in the stocks either faded completely away or compromised the strength of the hard rubber, resulting in them becoming brittle and breaking. Of course, it might be as simple as they were not popular with buyers, so production ceased soon after introduction or were changed out at the dealer at the time of sale. I have yet to find documentation that shows an all inclusive list of colors or proves all these colors actually existed.

I like you have seen red and green, but no other colors to date.
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:00 PM
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Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips  
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I've seen and had S&Ws with red, blue, yellow, light green, light brown, and black HR grips. A noted S&W collector from Florida displayed sets of colored HR stocks (grips) at one of our meetings about 10 yrs ago, which included those colors. Some had the block letters, some had the logo. I've also seen repo mottled red grips, with the logo, in both the checkered style as well as the floral, or "turkey" style, and those may still be available from some suppliers. Ed.
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Old 06-01-2018, 03:20 PM
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Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips  
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I have only seen the red and black ones in pictures and in real life. It would be interesting to see even just pictures of the other colored ones.
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Old 06-01-2018, 09:20 PM
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Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips  
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"Everything I have read indicates the red mottled stocks were only installed on blued .". There are a few opinions expressed as fact in a few publications. These opinions might be more palatable if the words proceeding the statement are "Mostly seen are... ". I admit that the red and black stocks are: 'most often' found on the blue .32 Single Action Top Break revolver but nickel .38's and .32's with the red and black mottled stocks exist; they're not uncommon. Another misspoken example is that wood stocks are correct for the blue Baby Russian revolvers. I'm sure there must be other examples that are taken as gospel.
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Old 06-02-2018, 01:35 PM
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Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips  
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The factory stocking room production logs indicate what type of stocks were placed on each gun and whether the gun was nickel or blue. Entries give the gun's serial number, the date of the stocking, whether HR ( hard rubber) or mottled for the mixed black/red, or pearl, ivory, etc. stocks were fitted to the guns. Those records are in the files of some S&WCA members. Perhaps someday a Journal article can shed more light on the subject. Ed.

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Old 01-23-2019, 01:11 AM
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Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips  
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So I was bored tonight and decided to do some research on these 38 SA second model grips. Below is a list I compiled. Serial number is listed first, then Finish, Lettering Style of Logo, Color of grips, and then the Barrel Length. It looks like Mottled red grips were installed on many nickel guns. Between serial numbers 47xxx and serial number 61,089 there were 7 guns installed with the red stocks and only 1 with black. Sorry the lines are scrunched together, they don't show up that way when they I typed this.



46 Nickel Block Black 3.25
1463 Nickel Block Black 3.25
3811 Nickel Block Black 3.25
7121 Nickel Block Black 3.25
16991 Nickel Block Black 3.25
23465 Nickel Block Black 3.25
27358 Blued Block Mottled Red 3.25
28869 Nickel Block Black 3.25
40173 Nickel Block Black 3.25
46624 Nickel Block Black 3.25
47xxx Nickel Block Mottled Red 3.25
47109 Nickel Block Mottled Red 3.25
52851 Nickel block Black 3.25
53913 Nickel Block Mottled Red 3.25
53933 Nickel Block Mottled Red 3.25
56112 Nickel Block Dark Mottled 3.25
60948 Nickel ??? Mottled Red 3.25
61089 Nickel Young Mottled Red 3.25
61799 Nickel Block Black 3.25
92021 Blued Young Mottled Red 3.25
92034 Blued Young Mottled Red 3.25
92986 Nickel Young Black 3.25
102963 Blued Young Mottled Red 3.25
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Old 01-23-2019, 01:18 AM
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Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips  
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Here is a picture of the dark mottled grips listed above. The description said they were numbered to the gun. Don't ever remember seeing any this dark before.
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Old 01-23-2019, 10:37 AM
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Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips  
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Just adding a picture of red mottled grips for the thread. This one shipped Aug 1887.
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Old 01-27-2019, 07:22 PM
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Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips  
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I now have 130 serial numbers put together on these second model SA's. It looks like about 1/2 the guns between serial number 47000 and 61089 had mottled red stocks and all are nickeled.

There are 4 guns with mottled stocks outside the serial range below and those are all blued. One early with a block style logo and 3 later with the Young logo stocks.

47000 Nickel Block Mottled Red 3.25
47109 Nickel Block Mottled Red 3.25
47846 Nickel Block Black 3.25
48322 Nickel Block Black 3.25
51765 Nickel Block Black 3.25
51931 Nickel Block Black 3.25
52851 Nickel Block Black 3.25
53892 Nickel N/A Pearl 3.25
53913 Nickel Block Mottled Red 3.25
53933 Nickel Block Mottled Red 3.25
54161 Nickel Block Mottled Red 3.25
56112 Nickel Block Dark Mottled 3.25
58602 Nickel N/A Pearl 3.25
58736 Nickel Block Black 3.25
60671 Nickel Young Mottled Red 3.25
60836 Nickel Block Black 3.25
60948 Nickel ??? Mottled Red 3.25
61089 Nickel Young Mottled Red 3.25

There were other things that showed up during this analysis. All guns from serial 13 to 28869 (46 guns in my analysis) had 3.25" barrels. From serial number 28871 to serial number 33324 the barrels were longer. There were 7 with 4" barrels, two with 5", and one 6". From serial number 34001 to serial 77110 all were 3.25" barrels (37 guns in my analysis). After that different barrel lengths are mixed in but most are 3.25".

Out of 130 guns 10 had 4" barrels, 9 had 5" barrels, 3 had 6" barrels, and 1 had an 8" barrel. All others I found had 3.25" barrels.

Did the same thing with baby russians. Out of the 55 guns I found 32 had 3.25" barrels and 23 had 4" barrels.
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Old 01-27-2019, 09:19 PM
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Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips  
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Boulder350, these are from my notes and only the R/B mottled .38 SA, 2nd from 50 years of collecting. Add 59523, Blue, originally Young Mottled Red (stocks sold; replaced w/ repro), 3.25". 60539, Nickel, Young Mottled Red, 3.25, British Proofed. I see other colors and barrel lengths; are you collecting that info also?
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Old 01-27-2019, 10:24 PM
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Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips  
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Thanks Mike. I will add your info to the list. First I was focusing on just the R/B mottled stocks, then added all the other info that one can easily find on the net. I also put notes in for engraving, boxes, and other things that were out of the ordinary.
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Old 01-27-2019, 10:42 PM
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Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips Second Model S.A. 38 Red Mottled Grips  
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OK, also from my notes; I'll add: 75287, Nickel (refinish), Young Black, 8". 96076, Nickel, Ivory, 5".
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