Howdy,

Going to check out a Model 1891 single shot tomorrow. (Sorry, don't know serial number yet.)

I do know that it is sporting a pair of black hard rubber extension grips that look like this (generic photo from the internet):




Would somebody please post a photo of what the inside of the grips should look like? I want to make sure the ones on the gun are the real McCoy.

Many thanks.

No photo, but having recently acquired an exquisite set of reproduction grips, I can tell you there's no difference on the inside. On the outside, the repros are ever so slightly less shiny (on the shiny parts). Suffice it to tell you my only comment upon opening the package was "WOW!!!"

To add further to your dilemma, original grips may or may not be numbered---with the numbers either stamped, scratched, or in pencil. I have all variations, the most common (of mine) being not numbered.

Ralph Tremaine

Your generic photo, by the way, isn't---generic. Your photo shows what appears to be a 2nd Model---but with a 1st Model frame (two pins). It will letter as either (1st or 2nd) based entirely on the serial number. Some folks like to call these "transitional" models. Others like to call them examples of S&W's penchant for using up old parts.

A set off a 1st model of 91 SS pistol, photo lightened to show marks, wear, etc. better. 20021 is penciled on right grip. Hope this helps.

Attached Images

DSCF5235.jpg (90.4 KB, 56 views)

Much obliged, guys. I really appreciate the info and the photo. Thanks for the help.

At the risk of being flogged for hijacking a thread, even one that's done with, there's some food for thought that deserves review---never mind all I wanted was this picture, and have no clue about how to go about stealing it by itself.

There's a general consensus among lunatic fringe single shot fans that the 2nd Model (more or less as pictured) is what the 1st Model should have been all along. I reckon it wasn't because S&W was interested in, or at least curious about single shots; but nowhere close to being committed to entering that market. So the 1st Model was a cobbled up combination of a (complete and functioning) revolver frame/action with single shot barrel stuck on it. That's spelled C H E A P----no big deal if it flops. Perhaps the most impressive thing about it (to me at least) was the single shot barrel could be either centerfire or rimfire----with same action/hammer/firing pin. You might want to think about that for a bit---and pay homage to the very hip dude who figured out how to do it----on the C H E A P---even with three different barrel lengths.

So here's this put-together thing---but it sold. It didn't sell much, but it sold enough that it got used by some good shooters---and the word that S&W made good stuff carried on. The bottom line is S&W was glad they'd done what they did---and started thinking about doing it right---or at least better.

Enter the 2nd Model. It was better, not really better---more like it made more sense---and it sold better---didn't set the world on fire; but S&W was still glad they'd done what they did. And these so-called "transitional" versions we see along the way might better be thought of as evolutionary versions.

And the 3rd Model did better yet.

And the 4th Model is a different story. It was a good gun, but not worth a cuss for timed and rapid fire--no surprise there, but it seems like it was.

Like I said---food for thought.

Ralph Tremaine

What was the composition of original grips in this era? I don't have an example to assess, but since I dabble in Colt Single Action Army Revolvers, original grips are gutta percha, and they have a very distinct burnt rubber smell. Once you smell it, you won't forget it. By appearance, these grips appear too shiny to be original gutta percha and, if it has that distinctive smell, it is unlikely to be anything but original, provided gutta percha was a material employed back in the day.

Gary Lowe ("glowe") can answer your question with more than a little precision. I imagine most, if not all, of the snow is gone from his place by now; so he'll be out and about and likely receptive to a PM in search of his expertise.

Ralph Tremaine

Hard Rubber is a very early thermoset plastic made predominately from sulfur and rubber. It is similar in composition to soft rubber, but contains a much higher percentage of sulfur. Ebonite, an early hard rubber, contains about 25–80% sulfur and linseed oil. If sulfur is present in rubber compounds in amounts over 18%, the product will be generally known as hard rubber. Once it has gone through the process of heat and pressure, hard rubber cannot be returned to its original state and therefore falls into the class of thermosetting plastics that undergo permanent chemical change under heat and pressure.

Ebonite is an early example of hard rubber made from natural rubber and contains about 25–80% sulfur and linseed oil. The smell of hard rubber is unmistakable, giving off a strong sulfur smell simply by rubbing your thumb on the inside of the stock until it heats up.

Gutta Percha, on the other hand, is a thermoplastic meaning that you can return the material to an original state by applying heat. It is made from a latex extracted from Palaquium gutta trees. Gutta-percha contains around 20% gutta-percha latex, 65% zinc oxide (filler), 10% heavy metal sulfates, and 5% waxes and/or resins.

Since I have never collected Colt revolvers, I cannot tell you what their stocks were made of, but am quite sure they also used hard rubber in the late 1800s.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Gary,

Your last post is quite informative.

I think what is, collectively, referred to as gutta percha in the Colt community might be (must be?) hard rubber. Although I think that hard rubber is occasionally tossed around, sort of a layman's term for gutta percha, when hard rubber is likely the proper nomenclature.

What you describe as hard rubber does have that unique smell; also, it sounds like gutta percha can melt and hard rubber does not. It seems like that, this being the case, if gutta percha, somewhere along the line I would have seen a partially melted set of grips, and that is not the case. Worst I've seen is a burn, such as a cigarette burn, on a set of grips.

Hard rubber will most likely always burn to an ash and not melt into a liquid, but as you describe, gutta percha will melt before burning, hence the main characteristic of a thermoplastic.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Wow now I probabaly will not be able to use any of this information but just maybe I am going to be in a medical setting this evening for a while and just maybe I can turn the conversation to hard rubber and let everyone get an idea of what kind of intelligent folks I hang with . If I can remember any of it . Mr Gary The Professor lol.