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Old 08-01-2018, 11:12 AM
Cab335 Cab335 is offline
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Does anybody have any component drawings for the Straightline? Or even good pictures that I can pull scale from to make CAD for a CNC lathe? My firing pin sear broke and has been lost to history and I would really like to make this gun work again.
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Old 08-01-2018, 12:50 PM
opoefc opoefc is online now
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Cab335, Welcome to the Forum. See PM. Ed.
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Old 08-01-2018, 01:02 PM
rct269 rct269 is offline
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I have an illustrated parts list which may or may not serve your purpose (seems unlikely, but). It's worth noting this document does not treat with any aspect of the adjustable trigger, and is therefore applicable to guns after serial number 648 (or thereabouts). Send your snail mail address to me in a PM, and a copy will appear in your mailbox.

Ernie Rice has likely forgotten more about Straight Lines than anyone alive knows. A PM is in route with his contact info. And if he hasn't forgotten more than anybody else knows, he almost certainly has more of them than anybody else.

Ralph Tremaine

I just thought of something perhaps more worthwhile: There is, in the book Smith & Wesson 1857-1945, a section on patents (begins on page 328 of the revised edition). Therein you will find the drawings for the Straight Line------which saved my bacon following the ill-advised act of taking one apart.

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Old 08-01-2018, 02:44 PM
Cab335 Cab335 is offline
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I will look up the book and see if I can locate a patent drawing. That part's list will help some, but I have a pre-648 SN.
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Old 08-01-2018, 03:22 PM
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Like Ralph said, contact Ernie Rice. He has 52 Straight Lines as well as parts. He may be able to help.
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Old 08-01-2018, 04:00 PM
rct269 rct269 is offline
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Wink YEAH BUT!!

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I will look up the book and see if I can locate a patent drawing. That part's list will help some, but I have a pre-648 SN.
Okay, well how much "pre-648" will have a bearing on it---as will whether or not what you need was changed from the early to later versions. I'm not even remotely inclined to guess at your needs, but here's what the book has to say: "The hammer was changed to the rebounding type, the steel used in the frame was heat treated, the trigger was changed from internally adjustable to non-adjustable, and the sear and sear lever were redesigned to give a shorter and crisper trigger pull." What the book doesn't say anything about, nor does it bear on your problem (Never mind I don't know for sure and certain what your problem is.) is the "Olympic Chamber" (short throat) of the early version also went away in the later version. Whether or not this happened concurrent with the other changes is unknown (to me). Another consideration is whether or not all the changes happened all at once---as in: "Now you see it, and now you don't!". I will express my opinion they did not---which is to say there are guns out there with some of the changes, but not all of them. I have only two of these thing---#128 (very early) and #1577 (very late). I figure I have the landscape covered, and don't need any more Straight Lines---even though I'll bet money there are different versions extant. The "Order to change hammer, sear, trigger and trigger lever for .22 Single Shot 1922 Model to improve hammer fall and pull" was issued on March 5, 1927. These orders (of any type for any gun) were implemented as it was convenient/practical to do so. The one thing you can pretty well take to the bank is if your gun shipped before March 5, 1927, you have an early version. That is, unless your gun carries factory service and date marks (after March, 1927). Then it's anybody's guess as to what you have---anybody's but Ernie Rice's. He could probably tell you exactly what you have----and the name of the little old lady who put the grips on it.

Ralph Tremaine

As an aside, I don't know where that 648 number came from------my fumble fingers perhaps. "All four changes were made in 1928 between serial numbers 785 and 942."

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Old 08-01-2018, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cab335 View Post
Does anybody have any component drawings for the Straightline? Or even good pictures that I can pull scale from to make CAD for a CNC lathe? My firing pin sear broke and has been lost to history and I would really like to make this gun work again.
It is interesting how the world turns!! I have in front of me S/L #916 in my hands at this very moment, in pieces, so if you end up needing specs on the sear I will send pics and measurements.

As a point of interest I have had 916 for years, has a totally brazed and bewildered striker which I have finally decided to repair, it has adjustable trigger and rebounding striker(hammer), I have found all the posts interesting, Thanks, John Claydon.
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Old 08-03-2018, 10:24 AM
Cab335 Cab335 is offline
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Any and all measurements please? Mine is #149 so there is some time between them, but mine does have the adjustable trigger. (Well, I think it is adjustable, there is a screw on the bottom of the grip that seemed to tighten the pull if memory serves.) I had all the parts when I inherited the gun, took it to a gun smith when I noticed the hammer didn't seem to cock. Sure enough the lip of the sear where it catches the hammer was gone. (Looked like it got a bit to hard and broke off some time over the years). I swear it was put back together then. Fast forward a decade and I decide to take it to another smith... lo an behold the sear was not in the gun.
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Old 08-03-2018, 11:17 AM
rct269 rct269 is offline
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The trigger adjustment mechanism will be found under the left side grip panel sitting on the trigger bar. The screw in the bottom of the grip is the strain screw----bears against the sear spring which bears against the sear which bears against the trigger lever and the hammer. To the best of my knowledge it is not to be messed with. Needless to say, I have messed with it---and learned the hammer won't cock (engage the sear) when the strain screw is backed out too far.

All that said, the thread count of the strain screw is VERY fine----suggesting it's to be used for some sort of adjustment. Now we hearken to Logic 101 Remedial, and wonder why there's a trigger adjustment AND a sear adjustment---seeing as how all this stuff is hooked up together. After pondering all this for a suitable period of time, we come to understand why these things didn't sell to well---and we take a nap.

Now, I figure the real reason these things didn't sell to well is because the folks that would be using them were hot for something to use for timed and rapid fire-------but that's a story for another day----and I don't know enough about it to tell it with any acceptable degree of accuracy---but that's still what I figure---as in "opine".

Ralph Tremaine

Back to this strain screw business for a bit: Given I don't/didn't really understand all this trigger adjustment and strain screw business, I fell back on one of my favorite pastimes----sittin' and starin'. Having sat and stared at the several relationships of the several pieces, the trigger adjustment mechanism serves to physically move the trigger/trigger lever/sear. The business end of the trigger lever engages the sear---and moves it down (away from the hammer) when the trigger moves to the rear. (The gun goes bang when the sear moves away from the hammer.) SO-------------adjusting the trigger is adjusting the distance the trigger must be moved to fire the gun----as in creep/the lack thereof. AND----messing with the strain screw alters the amount of pressure bearing against the sear---which is bearing against the trigger lever which is bearing against the trigger which is bearing against your finger which must overcome said pressure in order to make the gun go bang.

Got all that?!!!

And finally--it sure would be interesting to get our hands on the instructions that came with a Straight Line. Ernie------??????

Last edited by rct269; 08-03-2018 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 08-03-2018, 12:14 PM
Cab335 Cab335 is offline
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Sounds like I have a lot to learn about this gem...... Still trying to figure out the box o' parts I got back from the second gunsmith (they called me Tuesday and said they were going out of business Wednesday)
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Old 08-03-2018, 12:15 PM
Cab335 Cab335 is offline
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So what you saying is the bottom screw is pull weight and the other set screw is for the travel......

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The trigger adjustment mechanism will be found under the left side grip panel sitting on the trigger bar. The screw in the bottom of the grip is the strain screw----bears against the sear spring which bears against the sear which bears against the trigger lever and the hammer. To the best of my knowledge it is not to be messed with. Needless to say, I have messed with it---and learned the hammer won't cock (engage the sear) when the strain screw is backed out too far.

All that said, the thread count of the strain screw is VERY fine----suggesting it's to be used for some sort of adjustment. Now we hearken to Logic 101 Remedial, and wonder why there's a trigger adjustment AND a sear adjustment---seeing as how all this stuff is hooked up together. After pondering all this for a suitable period of time, we come to understand why these things didn't sell to well---and we take a nap.

Now, I figure the real reason these things didn't sell to well is because the folks that would be using them were hot for something to use for timed and rapid fire-------but that's a story for another day----and I don't know enough about it to tell it with any acceptable degree of accuracy---but that's still what I figure---as in "opine".

Ralph Tremaine

Back to this strain screw business for a bit: Given I don't/didn't really understand all this trigger adjustment and strain screw business, I fell back on one of my favorite pastimes----sittin' and starin'. Having sat and stared at the several relationships of the several pieces, the trigger adjustment mechanism serves to physically move the trigger/trigger lever/sear. The business end of the trigger lever engages the sear---and moves it down (away from the hammer) when the trigger moves to the rear. (The gun goes bang when the sear moves away from the hammer.) SO-------------adjusting the trigger is adjusting the distance the trigger must be moved to fire the gun----as in creep/the lack thereof. AND----messing with the strain screw alters the amount of pressure bearing against the sear---which is bearing against the trigger lever which is bearing against the trigger which is bearing against your finger which must overcome said pressure in order to make the gun go bang.

Got all that?!!!

And finally--it sure would be interesting to get our hands on the instructions that came with a Straight Line. Ernie------??????
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Old 08-03-2018, 02:00 PM
rct269 rct269 is offline
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So what you saying is the bottom screw is pull weight and the other set screw is for the travel......
Yeah---but!!

The bottom screw supports the sear spring which supports the sear----the vertical load---just sitting there---taking up space (with no spring pressure involved)----in addition to providing the means to alter (spring) pressure ("pull weight"). So, as mentioned earlier, back out the strain screw too far, and the sear falls away from the hammer--and you're out of business. In other words there is provision for altering pull weight to some degree, but don't push your luck. Given the physical relationships involved, it seems likely there is an area where the hammer (when cocked) could then fall and fire the pistol---all by itself, so to speak. I'm quite certain I could make that happen simply by lightly tapping the butt with the palm of my hand---all of which is why I noted it sure would be nice to see the instructions provided with the pistol-----assuming they speak to other than loading/firing/cleaning. It may well be that while messing with the bottom screw influences pull weight somewhat, that such was not intended. That said, when we go back to the very fine thread count on the strain screw---and note also that there's almost 3/8" of threaded length (when 1/16" would do nicely to hold everything in place)-----we have to keep right on wondering.

Ralph Tremaine

Last edited by rct269; 08-03-2018 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 08-04-2018, 08:29 AM
Cab335 Cab335 is offline
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Just looked... never noticed that screw right there on the trigger before. So yes mine is an adjustable trigger.

May have been that bottom screw had adjustment for differences in machining. Even though it was still master machinists and relatively modern machines, it was still human. Heck, when I do a mechanical design for CNC I still leave a tolerance for them. That said, be interesting to see what a modern CNC could do with this design.
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