1st model 32 safety hammerless some questions for the experts

cmansguns · #1 08-23-2018, 12:58 PM

Interesting antique came into my hands a few days ago. I'm not really up to speed on antique S & W other than what I read in SCSW and what's on this Forum but I know you guys have both the experience, knowledge and the willingness to assist us newbies as we (I) stumble into this older fascinating arena of S & W.

Subject is for sure a 1st Model 32 safety hammerless, 3-1/2" barrel, 5 shot, nickel top=break revolver. Made from 1888 to 1902 per SCSW 4th, and this one has the push down barrel release so clearly 1st Model. Some questions for the experts:

The gun will not chamber a 32 S & W Long (see pic) , so I must assume 32 Short, but the 1888 (s/n 5195, matches butt & cylinder) date would mean black powder, so I'm guessing no modern smokeless 32 short should be attempted? Do you know of any factory round that is loaded low enough to be safe in this gun, or is it a wall hanger, nice piece of history?

There is no caliber mark anywhere on the gun, and the s&w info marked on the top rib almost needs a magnifying glass tom read , but it is all address and patent info. No serial number anywhere I can see on barrel either.

The grips are original but only the edges and backside remain jet black, the rest that you can see and handle has turned almost a medium brown color, yet the s&w monogram, diamonds and checkering are not looking like worn smooth from hands, palms, and fingers over the years, more like some sort of color differential.

It appears all original nickel finish (what's left anyway) yet the trigger guard, trigger appear as original blued finish. Did they leave the factory this way to your knowledge? It doesn't look like any parts have ever been replaced and the screws reflect that the sideplate has most likely never been off in 130 years.

The trigger pull is smooth and steady and the cylinder has no play fore, aft or side to side, so would love to shoot this piece but certainly don't want to damage it (or me!)

Do any of you know of a data base about these old serial number 1st Models? There are probably older ones out there but most I see about on the forum are 5 digit. You think this one is worth a Letter, even though the Letter is about what I have in the gun.

Thanks in advance for info and answers on this old gun. I didn't want to keep venturing down the antique path, but any piece with S & W on it gets my attention and for low bucks it usually comes on home with me.

opoefc · #2 08-23-2018, 01:38 PM

You have a 1st model .32 Safety hammerless, as you say. You will find the serial number on the barrel between the "ears" on the rear where the barrel latch is located. The same number should be on the bottom of the latch, if the part is original to the gun. The grips should also have the serial number on the back side of the right panel, probably penciled or scratched, but maybe stamped. The correct caliber is .32 Smith & Wesson. There is no .32 S&W Short, although the same cartridge made by Colt for their revolvers is called the .32 Short Colt. Modern .32 S&W ammo. is safe to shoot in the older guns, if they are in good mechanical condition, as the pressures are safely loaded . I would not spend the $ for a letter, as almost all of these went to big distributors in shipment of 100s of guns. The chemical components of the material used to make the grips tends to turn a light brown over time, if the gun was exposed to a light source for long periods. Your gun has suffered cosmetically from poor storage & handling, but mechanically may be OK. It's a first year production gun and value is about $100 at most gun shows. Ed.

H Richard · #3 08-24-2018, 10:12 AM

Ed is right on the money on all points. Not all gun shops will have this ammo on the shelf, but can be ordered from Midway, Graf's, and most on line ammo dealers. It is unfortunately more expensive than a lot of other calibers as it is not widely used any longer. You do need to get one box and shoot the old gun (if sound), these old pocket pistols are quite fun.

model3sw · #4 08-24-2018, 01:08 PM

I have a few boxes of early 1900s factory pack Eagle brand, that I can sell you at a fair price. These are "smokeless". While the loads are supposed to be comparable to the black powder counterpart, I don't recommend you shooting them in this, particular, revolver.

in fact, as a warning in the early 1900s, S&W included a warning about a void of guarantee if smokeless powder was used, however, it seems that warning was to prevent those who reloaded from using smokeless powder cartridges that were loaded at the same quantity / weight of the black powder loading levels.

Some later factory packed ammo advertised they were safe for older S&W black powder revolvers.

glowe · #5 08-24-2018, 05:08 PM

As for the warnings about using smokeless ammunition on pre-1900 guns, the companies statements that even though they do not honor warranties for guns using smokeless ammunition, they stated that factory and reloaded ammunition was just fine in their revolvers. I think it was around 1907 that the issue was dropped from their catalogs. No significant changes occurred between late antique S&Ws and early Twentieth Century revolvers, plus the tensile strength of steel did not change either. The company statements indicated they would void the warranty even if using factory smokeless ammunition . . . . even though they claimed there was nothing wrong with factory smokeless???? Their position never made any sense. I have shot a few boxes of 32 S&W in my 1st Safety, both factory and reloads with no problem. I added a 1900 S&W Catalog two page entry on Powders and a later 1903 one page entry.

There were over 91,000 of the 1st Model made, so value is low. For a comparison and current value estimate, I purchased the example below a couple years ago and paid $110 for it. My 1st Model was 46XX and shipped in 1889. Your revolver qualifies as an antique and was probably shipped around 1890.

cmansguns · #6 08-25-2018, 10:07 AM

Thanks fellas for all of the comments and history on my 1st Model safety hammerless. I did find the barrel serial number as posted "between the ears" when barrel tipped up. 2 digits on 1 ear, 2 digits on the other ear, so all numbers match.

I am not going to Letter it simply because the Letter costs more than the gun, and I probably will not shoot it even though mechanically it is very sound.

The front sight is the absolute thinnest I have ever encountered, on any firearm, anywhere and when held at arms length, the front sight disappears before these old eyes. Second reason is that even though I have medium (average?) size hands, it is almost impossible to get my trigger finger into that opening and get a decent "feel" so anything beyond a couple yards would just be guessing on my part, plus the cost and availability of that 32 Short.

My Model 31-1 in 32 Long is almost like shooting a 22 with relatively no felt recoil and the pills land pretty much where I want them to.

If any of you folks want this safety hammerless for parts or whatever, shoot me a PM and we'll see what can be done, like said, grips have turned light brown, the nickel finish is bad condition, all else is mechanically sound if you can get beyond that massive trigger pull for DA (feels like 15 pounds plus but can only get the tip of my trigger finger in position).

Thanks again for the history.

Wiregrassguy · #7 08-25-2018, 11:43 AM

Here is a copy of the flip flop when they said smokeless commercial ammo was ok.

1st model 32 safety hammerless some questions for the experts-sw1909catpage-jpg

1st model 32 safety hammerless some questions for the experts-sw1909catpage-jpg

tlay · #8 08-25-2018, 08:33 PM

I reload and have fired many ,many, rounds through antique black powder top breaks with smokeless powder. Just use a hollow base bullet with 2grs of bullseye powder. It is hard to meter this small amount but it can be done. Be very careful of a double charge!

glowe · #9 08-25-2018, 09:32 PM

With the introduction of Trail Boss powder, double charging of vintage revolver calibers are a thing of the past. High bulk, low pressure powder that makes it very easy to produce quality reloads for these old guns.