In this day and age, I should have thought minimal at best.

I purchased the attached .38 Safety Hammerless Fifth Model, Blued, with a 3 1/4" barrel on Wednesday at the LGS. Asking price was $450, condition not bad. In my experience, that price is too high, but I have learned that at this LGS, if the owner hasn't sold a gun in awhile, he will wheel and deal. He offered it to me for $250 including tax and transfer fees, not a bad price for this. Not much of an upside on these, but I was willing to pay that for this one, but not any more.

I noted on the other side of the forum immediately after I purchased this one that there was less than 5 requests yet in the "SWCA-Ship Date Request" section, so I posted this one as one for Roy to search. I should state that this is a completely unremarkable revolver, no provenance, no extraordinary features, and, being a Fifth Model, not provoking curiosity because of a low serial number.

So, Roy answered the ship date request yesterday afternoon. If you are sitting on the edge of your seat right now in anticipation of when this one was shipped, I suppose you will have to join the SWCA to find out, if you don't already belong.

As you may have noted, the number of "views" of a thread can be seen on this forum. Of the last 5 posted and answered (so, chronologically available for viewing the same period of time and not skewed due to being available for a longer, or shorter, period of time), this one has the second highest number of views, at 20. A Victory Model has 21 views, and since this had an additional question posted, some of the views can likely be to seeing why there is an additional post in that thread, which is usually not the case (I clicked on it to see why, for example). The other three threads have between 11 and 16 views right now. I realize that some of the more popular models, by their very nature, will garner a greater number of views--Registered Magnum, Schofield, Triple Lock, for example. The older models tend to receive less views. However, the other threads for that day were much newer and, I thought, more popular models, these being, in addition to the Victory, a .38/44 Heavy Duty. a .38 Special M & P, and a K38 Combat Masterpiece.

Anyone else surprised by, in this unscientific analysis, the relative "popularity" of the lowly Safety Hammerless? I should have thought that the popularity (number of views) would be about half of most anything else out there, which suggests a minimal number of views (6 or 8, perhaps?)

This one had been for sale for awhile, and obviously priced too high. But, on the other hand, I should have thought, just like with this one, there would be few buyers and little interest.

Attached Images

20180921_062521.jpg (69.6 KB, 127 views)

I think you got a pretty good buy on that one. There is something unique about the Safety Hammerless guns. They were some of the first Concealed Carry/Pocket guns for self defense. A lot of them were put in the sock drawer when nearly new and never used. That's why you can find some in really nice conditon from time to time. But, they are still usable for their intended purpose.

I think you will find a reasonable following on these neat little S&W's. I happen to like the 32 caliber versions.

These are a 1st Model, 2nd Model, and a 3rd Model.


This is a Bicycle (2nd Model) Hammerless.


Sorry for the little glare, they are all in glass front shadow boxes, sitting on my roll top desk.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Why do 32 & 38 Safety revolvers sell, because of the price. What other S&W can you buy in 100% condition for $300+. Besides that, the availability is greater than almost any other S&W Model, whether antique, C&R, or modern. As for the views on ship date requests, it seems that many members are keeping their own databases on ship dates, so my guess is that there are 5 to 10 out there opening every ship date request to extract shipping dates on many of the guns posted there. As a comparison, I entered a fairly rare 6" 32 Safety revolver back on August 25 and it only has 16 views, so inferring anything based on those views is a stretch.

Value is another issue and I have always been interested in comparing collecting S&W through the decades. I did a study using collector guides from 1953 through 2013 to try and determine what was the "Golden Age of Collecting S&W" and used 14 antique and pre-WWII revolvers as examples. Condition used for the study was 80% -90%. good solid collectible guns, but not beat up of pristine. It seems that a guide are produced on almost every 10 year cycle from that original Martin Rywell guide, so was able to value these 14 guns. Authors like Rywell, Leonhardt, and Supica's various volumes were used, plus online auction results.

I included a 32 Safety in the list and the results were that it was the lowest in value appreciation of all the guns on the list. The 32 Safety listed values are below and the 60 year average annual appreciation from 1953 to 2013 was 4.7%.

Value History for a 32 Safety, 80% Blue
1953 - $18
1963 - $20
1973 - $100
1983 - $200
1993 - $200
2003 - $250
2013 - $275

Do I have a shelf full of them in the safe, absolutely! Why did I buy them? I purchased the majority of them because it is relatively easy to assemble examples of every variation of both 32 and 38 Safety revolvers in great condition at very low cost. Besides, they are just so cute and cuddly.

Attached Images

	P1010006.jpg (101.2 KB, 51 views)
	1953 Rywell.jpg (49.9 KB, 21 views)
	1962 Rywell.jpg (82.9 KB, 19 views)

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Nice guns, I always check the safety hammerless posts. Only have one now but I am always looking.
Walt

I think that's nothing to sneeze at. Several times more than what having money in the bank does and it significantly exceeds inflation.

The highest appreciation of the 14 guns I researched was the American, 1st Model, 95%, gaining an average of 9% annually over the last 60 years. That gun was valued at $45 in 1953 and is valued at $8000 in 2013. Maybe if the Expert Commentaries come back, I can post the research and results there.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

"cute and cuddly", glad you said it first.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

Some random thoughts: I don't collect the Antique (actually pre 1940) Smiths with investment value in mind when I buy (except that junk will always be junk). I find the "hunt" to be the real pleasure as well as 'completing' the series of a certain Model; such as H Richard has done. The Safety Hammerless Model is challenging if one expands their collecting interests to include the not-so-often encountered variations instead of the run-of-the-mill examples.

I offer several examples or challenges:

1) a set of 1st, 2nd and 3rd variations of the 2", .32 Safety Hammerless'

2) a set of all variations of 6", .32 Safety Hammerless'

3) a .38 Safety Army Test revolver (100 submitted for Trials)

Then there are the not-so-often encountered variations of the ROM Models:

'Z' Bar 1st Model, .38 with a Blue finish

Engraved, boxed, pearl, ivory or other than the majority barrel length, etc..

As for Ship Dates; only those made after 1898 might need these dates for Transfer purposes. The majority of these revolvers are in the antique category and SCSW lists those numbers. I personally don't care if my 1st Model, .38 Safety Hammerless shipped on Tuesday or Friday because I know that ALL were made prior to 1899.

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Mike Maher #283

My opinion of why the "Lemon Squeezers" remain popular, is as follows. first of all the name, "Lemon Squeezer", although frowned upon today, was it's most often used name, used by it's enthusiastic owners, gun writers, and would be owners. As the Safety Hammerless, was considered by most gun enthusiasts to be the ultimate revolver, on the market, at the time, and very expensive. Many of those would be owners, had to buy, and settle for the many less expensive brand revolvers. The Safety Hammerless revolver had features, that are being touted by some gun manufactures today, as new features. Some of it's features, that I like are, shooting it single action. The shooter can pull the trigger back to about mid pull where the trigger pauses, and if then pulled further, it releases the internal hammer and fires the gun, thereby giving the shooter, the ability to shoot the gun single action. Another feature is the grip safety, which makes the gun extremely safe for pocket carry. Then there is the high quality of fit, finish. There are others, but, I'll let those, sum up why I think the "Lemon Squeezer" was, very popular, in it's "Hay Day", is now, and always will be popular. Here's one of mine, shown in a case that I made for it.

Chubbo

Attached Images

DSC03009.JPG (134.9 KB, 34 views)

I got mine simply because it was "cute" and in perfect, probably unused, condition. Had to have it. This one is vintage of 1921, according to Roy.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

OK, the term "cute" has now entered our accepted verbiage for describing the SH or New Departure.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

I wouldn't base number of views as the basis for interest level in a certain model of any gun. I would simply say that it might reflect the huge number of a certain model made, so more people own them. Thus more owners equal more people looking at a similar model titled in a post.
The Safety Hammerless have never had huge following, or garnered big dollars in the 4 decades I've collected S&W pistols. Their values have crept up over this time, but not nearly as much as many other more desirable S&W revolvers.
I love the Safety Hammerless, and they could easily be a collector's focus on this one variation, and not break the bank for the collector focusing on them. But the value of that collector's total collection will be a pretty slow climb.

The attraction for me in your firearm, or any Self Defense
type of firearm, is the simplicity of operation.
No fumbling about, just "point and click".
The newer models have the same attraction, but not
the same look, that yours has.
Their design also makes them great for concealed carry.
TACC1