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Old 10-16-2018, 11:56 AM
tlmetesh tlmetesh is offline
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Default New Model No 3 in .45 Eley?

I'm researching a New Model No. 3 that claims to be chambered in .45 Eley and is supposedly verified with a factory letter.

I can find no mention of such caliber anywhere. There are plenty of similar options, like .455 Eley, .455 Webley, .450 Revolver, etc, but nothing for .45 Eley. Is that caliber really a thing that I'm simply unaware of, or is it a typo in a couple places?
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Old 10-16-2018, 12:06 PM
mrcvs mrcvs is offline
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I would think it's a typo and the 5 in .455 Eley was omitted.
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Old 10-16-2018, 01:22 PM
mmaher94087 mmaher94087 is online now
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Sounds like a Spel-check automatic correction.
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Old 10-17-2018, 12:27 PM
opoefc opoefc is offline
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Agree with Mike, probably a typo. .45 caliber NM#3s factory letters seldom give a caliber definition other than just .45, as usually only special orders in .455 Ely or .455 Webley, such as the guns ordered by Walter Winans in those calibers, will letter as .455s. Can you post a photo of the factory letter? Ed.
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Old 10-17-2018, 02:06 PM
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All NM3s I've seen in British calibers were always marked with an assortment of British proofs. I'm of the opinion, many were GI bring backs from England after WWII but there could be a variety of explanations, of how, many of them ended up back in the USA.

One of my New Model 3s, in .44 Russian, letters as shipped to England in 1898 (IIRC) with about a dozen more in the same order. It is "the" only NM3 I've ever seen or heard of, that shipped to England ... that is NOW back in the USA, and, is not British proofed.

It's all good just as long as all the serial number match. Those being on the butt, the face of the cylinder and the latch. There would also be the serial number on the underside of the right grip/stock and the base of the front sight, however, removing the front sight is a task I don't advise a hobbyist attempt without the exact proper tools.

Be sure the caliber was not converted from .455 or .450 (or like) to .45 Schofield or .45 ACP. I examined a British proofed .450, years back, that I "presumed" had been converted to .45 ACP (Why ? I don't know, he's on third and I don't give a darn ... borrowed from Abbott & Costello's "Who's on First").

Beside the value loss of the conversion a .45 ACP conversion is deadly and extremely dangerous. The one I examined (but did not purchase ... one of the few I did not purchase) had the face of the cylinder shaved that you barely determine where the serial number on the face of the cylinder had been. Makes no sense, what so ever, except if during one of the Wars (WW I or II) the ACP on the moon clips was more readily available, but that's just a logical guess for an illogical conversion. That one just wreaked with the signs of (perhaps) being a U.S. G.I. home conversion albeit it was nicely machined. (Like the Mark II Triple Locks and 2nd HEs from .455 to .45 LC. Some of those were converted nicely, others were just awful.

If factroy target sighted (matching clasp number is the tell there), should have a non-rebounding hammer. If standard, fixed sights, should have a rebounding hammer.

Condition is everything here. Don't settle for it if it is the least bit shaky when closed or if the timing isn't perfect. Parts for these are getting near impossible to find.

As Ed and others have pointed out, most letters might say only .45 Caliber, while others to England might be listed as 45 Caliber some are listed in the exact caliber. The .45 British calibers are out there if you look for them. They are usually not a collectors 1st choice to purchase unless owned by Walter Winans or some other famous shooter or other special order purpose.

The hands-down favorite caliber sought for the New Model 3s is .44 Russian. It is a practical and (now) readily available when just 20 years ago, .44R had be considered obsolete. Odd calibers add interest and value, except in the British Calibers, or so it seems. I even own one modified from either 32-44 or 38-44 to .22 LR. That's a blast to shoot, but not a high value gun because not an original offered caliber. The collectors value on a .22 LR conversion would be in the eyes of the beholder. But it can be fired all day long with .22LR and never get hot.

According to some notes I accumulated and input from fellow members some of the calibers offered (some very scarce others not) was .32 Winchester (very scarce), 32-44, 38-44, 41 Rimfire and .41 Center fire, .44 Russian, .44-40 Winchester, kd450 British, .455 British, and finally .45 S&W Schofield. There may be other I forgot so, Ed, please jump in. I think even available in .320 Revolving Rifle calibers.

There were very few manufactured in .45 S&W Schofield. Ed (Ed Cornett "OPOEFC") wrote an article for the S&WCA Journal several years back on the NM3s in .45 S&W Schofield. In that article he showed a few standard sighted NM3s that were in lesser condition percentages as they are that hard to find.

As if those the NM3s standards sight version are impossible to find in ANY condition, the New Model 3 Target variation in .45 S&W Schofield is a scarce as hen's teeth. In my lifetime I have researched to find, document qnd verify only 2. One is listed with serial number and photographed in Neal and Jinks, Smith &Wesson book from the 1960s publication.

For the next 20 years I searched for a New Model 3 Target in .45 S&W Schofield. In 1997 I heard tell of a member collector that had one. If the member truly owned it, it would be only the 2nd NM3 Target, in .45 S&W Schofield I had ever documented.

I "finally" purchased it from that fellow member (now passed) in 2007 after he taunting me for the 10 years prior.

This old member retired in about 1988. Every year that he snow-birded to Florida (his winter home) since then, he brought only 1 model S&W with him, each year to the January, Lakeland Rifle & Pistol Club gunshow.

He started selling off his collection by model number sequence, starting with his Number 1s, Model 1-1-1 to Models 1-1-6s one year. Next year the 1st Model 2nd, then 3rds, Then 1+1/2 , the Model 2s and so on and so forth.

The anticipation of waiting to see his New Model 3s (especially the .45 Schofield Target) was killing me. I thought at one point he was playing a sick joke on me by his refusal to break his sales strategy and bring me the darn NM3T in .45 Schofield. LOL ! Of couse, with the massive high quality collection he brought, every year, I truly was hopeful he was not joking.

His S&W collection was his "retirement" savings. He never put up a S&W for sale that was less than 90% condition. All his collection was high grade, high condition S&Ws.

Many of my nicest S&Ws came from fellow members. I would easily conclude that a few of those members probably owned these old S&Ws from a time before I was born. They say the "quest" to find the nice or scares S&Ws is the exciting part, but networking through fellow, older, members, was my best success plan to acquire the really nice stuff I liked.

Good luck on that one. Post some pix for us. Sal Raimondi
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Last edited by model3sw; 10-17-2018 at 11:09 PM. Reason: amended
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