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05-10-2019, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMur
Well,
Thanks for taking the time to take all those measurements. Ok so first the cartridges are post 1911 and likely smokeless reloads. The measurements on the chambers amazes me as do their swirl polished appearance in the latest photos. but since you are seeing no variance on your measurements then we have no evidence of an alteration and they most definitely mic as 44WCF and bottle neck in configuration. No other “American” cartridge meets those specs. As far as the bore? It may simply have been shot a lot? If the chambers were altered it was done too well to determine alteration over this forum. So I think it’s time for a letter.
Oh, also, the .442 throat dimension is exactly correct for the 44 WCF. Throat size is relevant to cartridge specs and not Bullet diameter. So that is right on the money.
As far as sleeving the chambers? I recommend we wait for a factory letter to confirm original caliber before we dive into that project?
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Oh! Thank you for your efforts to help me make sense of this old Revolver!
No 'swirls' in real life though, so those must be an effect somehow of Light reflecting in the chambers. Cylinder openings all through, super smooth and clean and nice, and no machine or hone or swirl or other marks.
Last edited by Oyeboteb; 05-10-2019 at 08:36 PM.
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05-10-2019, 09:45 PM
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So you gonna get a letter or what??
By the way, no proof marks anywhere correct?? Especially on the cylinder flutes??
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05-10-2019, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMur
So you gonna get a letter or what??
By the way, no proof marks anywhere correct?? Especially on the cylinder flutes??
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No proof marks or small stampings of any kind anywhere, no re-work dates or codes on the Grip Frame.
It is probably getting a little late for trying to return it and to justify the delay so far since it arrived, so...I probably may as well get the 'Letter' so I can at least find out what it has to say...
I wanted a good condition Target Revolver for old time Bullseye stuff! Himmelwright Wadcutters and all that...
Not an intriguing, wacked-out, budget-denting 'wall hanger'...
Ohhhh, golly...The wonderful world of old Guns, huh..!
Last edited by Oyeboteb; 05-10-2019 at 11:10 PM.
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05-10-2019, 11:43 PM
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Yeah, but that’s what antique guns are all about. You have us all on the edge of our seats on this one. Can’t wait to read what Roy Jinks has to say!
There are solutions no matter what comes back. It is a target variation! and honestly it’s in good overall condition. The factory letter won’t hurt your guns value as I see it. Even if it’s been altered you can put it back to match the factory record with a qualified re-work. Who knows at this point? we might all be amazed by the letters content. Those cylinder chambers are in much better shape then I originally thought. You might have hit the jackpot on this one! Some rare special order? If you can’t prove it’s fake or altered? A letter is a must have! Hopefully there is a record existing on this one!
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05-11-2019, 01:01 AM
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Sometimes life takes us in a different direction than we first intended-you already have a Colt New Service Target to shoot 44 Russian/44 Special. For 44-40 black powder shooting, you can get .430 flush seated wadcutters(or larger custom diameters) as low as 150 grains with grease grooves from Matt's Bullets and have a much more uncommon and intriguing revolver for target shooting. No one else will have one like yours!
Last edited by redwagon32; 05-11-2019 at 11:13 AM.
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05-11-2019, 08:41 AM
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Yes, get the letter! It's a lousy $65! If you send for it today, you should probably get a response no later than mid June.
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05-11-2019, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwagon32
Sometimes life takes us in a different direction than we first intended-you already have a Colt New Service Target to shoot 44 Russian/44 Special. For 44-40 black powder shooting, you can get .430 flush seated wadcutters(or larger custom diameters) as low as 150 grains with grease grooves from Matt's Bullets and have a much more uncommon and intriguing revolver for target shooting. No one else will have one like yours!
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I have those Bullets!
And other .44 Wadcutters also, as well as some old Molds for .44 Wadcutters.
My New Model 3 though, the Cylinder Bores and Barrel Bore are too large for any .44 anything, .430 Bullet drops through the Barrel in free fall...
Hollow Base Wadcutters might sort of work, but, eeeeesh...
There's no way it can give any accuracy the way things are with it.
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05-12-2019, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcvs
Yes, get the letter! It's a lousy $65! If you send for it today, you should probably get a response no later than mid June.
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My application form for "The Letter" goes out tomorrow..!
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05-13-2019, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oyeboteb
My application form for "The Letter" goes out tomorrow..!
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If you're a non-member the letter is $75 but still cheap considering the possible outcome.
I suggest you print pictures to include in the S&W Historical letter request and a paragraph or two to Roy, telling him ALL the numbers match, of the shorter extractor housing and exact length of the cylinder.. Describe it as a New Model 3 Target "variation" with whatever measurements and chamber tests (ammo used and results) you have done.
Let us know when you know. I'm rooting for you !
__________________
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LM1300 SWHF425
Last edited by model3sw; 05-13-2019 at 11:02 AM.
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05-13-2019, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by model3sw
If you're a non-member the letter is $75 but still cheap considering the possible outcome.
I suggest you print pictures to include in the S&W Historical letter request and a paragraph or two to Roy, telling him ALL the numbers match, of the shorter extractor housing and exact length of the cylinder.. Describe it as a New Model 3 Target "variation" with whatever measurements and chamber tests (ammo used and results) you have done.
Let us know when you know. I'm rooting for you !
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Thank you!
Will do!
I have the photos printed out, but will add close ups of the Serial Numbers in their locations.
I will also note the measurements I have done...good idea!
I still do not understand the "Shorter Extractor Housing" mention.
All the images I have looked at of 'New Model 3' Revolvers, the Extractor Housing looks the same as mine!
I have not fired it...but I am sure looking forward to doing so, if I can ever get things up to snuff for that!
Last edited by Oyeboteb; 05-13-2019 at 01:13 PM.
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05-14-2019, 08:07 AM
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Extractor Housing : explanations
On a first generation new model 3 (sn 1 to 13600) in standard version (not target), the Extractor Housing are longer (see picture)
For target versions, Extractor Housing is short.
The targets are only in caliber 38/44 and 32/44 so yours could not be one.
So I considered that your nm3 was a standard version (44 russian or other) with a target option, in this case the numbers 3721 corresponded to a long Extractor Housing, but this is not the case
It is not impossible that they have included in the target series (38/44 & 32/44) nm3 of other calibers, for me this is the only reason to find a Short Extractor Housing on a nm3 of this series .
the letter will give us the answer.
Without forgetting that there should be two 3721 numbers: one for the standard version and the other for the target version.
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05-14-2019, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bibain
Extractor Housing : explanations
On a first generation new model 3 (sn 1 to 13600) in standard version (not target), the Extractor Housing are longer (see picture)
For target versions, Extractor Housing is short.
The targets are only in caliber 38/44 and 32/44 so yours could not be one.
So I considered that your nm3 was a standard version (44 russian or other) with a target option, in this case the numbers 3721 corresponded to a long Extractor Housing, but this is not the case
It is not impossible that they have included in the target series (38/44 & 32/44) nm3 of other calibers, for me this is the only reason to find a Short Extractor Housing on a nm3 of this series .
the letter will give us the answer.
Without forgetting that there should be two 3721 numbers: one for the standard version and the other for the target version.
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So...if someone wanted a Target version New Model 3, in some chambering other than the .32-44 or .38-44, the reulting 'Target' Revolver would be made from a not yet finished commercial Frame and Barrel?
While the .32-44 and .38-44 Target Models were done up using a different Barrel assembly from the Commercial line up?
As for a rough date of Manufacture of mine, what can we suppose for my example and it's relatively low serial Number?
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03-06-2020, 10:07 PM
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I have to ask--Did you ever get a letter for this?
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03-07-2020, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwagon32
I have to ask--Did you ever get a letter for this?
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Not yet...no idea what happened there, other than I did not follow through as I had meant to...
I'll get my applications done this Week-End for the Letter, and then report back on this Revolver once the Letter for it has arrived.
Sorry for the long pause! - self employed, massively over worked, days just all flow on by, like-a-river...
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