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Old 08-31-2019, 02:48 PM
Texas Star Texas Star is online now
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American Model .44 Used by  4th Cavalry? American Model .44 Used by  4th Cavalry?  
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Default American Model .44 Used by 4th Cavalry?

I think I read somewhere that the 4th US Cavalry was issued S&W American model .44's in the early 1870's. True? How many were bought? I'm viewing YouTube reruns of, Mackenzie's Raiders and they have Colt SAA revolvers only just adopted in 1873, the year of the episode.

I realize that Hollywood is inaccurate, but would the real 4th Cavalry Regt. have had the S&W guns? Carbines in .50-70?

Last edited by Texas Star; 08-31-2019 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 08-31-2019, 04:20 PM
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I only know that when researching the 7th Cavalry in the Custer era I found documents that prove The 4th Cavalry had Colt 73’s in 45 caliber in the same serial number range. Also that Earlier Springfield armory records prove serial numbers For the 4th Cavalry suggest 1873/4 issuance. 2000 Single Action Army revolvers were issued in 1873 to the Cavalry and an additional 10,000+ in 1874. A lot of those are proven to have been issued to the 4th.
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Old 09-08-2019, 12:31 AM
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Well Texas Star,
You must be a church goer? I was conducting research and stumbled upon this article from a Man at Arms magazine in my collection. August of 1995.
You might like it!

Murph
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:28 PM
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As we know, Hollywood is very historically inaccurate. I sold my Gun Report magazines when I moved 10 years ago but I 'THINK' there was a writeup on the American's that mentioned the 4th Cav.
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:50 PM
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I don't have my copy handy but I'll wager that Charlie Pate's book "Smith & Wesson American Model" has all there is to know about American Models and the 4th Cav. Ed.
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:12 AM
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Take Ed's suggestion and go to Pate's Smith & Wesson American Model. It is documented that 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, & 7th Cavalry had S&Ws on hand in the early 1870s. The details can be found starting at page 112 of Pate's book.

I am thinking that there could be multiple countings of the same gun through the years if guns were transferred from one unit to another.
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:40 AM
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Pate's book (pages 118-122) shows that at least 150 thru possibly 180 S&W 44 were issued to he 4th in 1872 & 1873. Mostly to companies headquartered in or near Texas.

I got so caught up reading it that I missed Glowe's post

Last edited by torizus; 09-10-2019 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:50 AM
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In "On the Border with Mackenzie" Robert G. Carter (a Lieutenant under Mackenzie) mentioned using issued S&W revolvers in the early 1870's in Texas but did not mention which model.
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:53 PM
Scott S Texas Scott S Texas is offline
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Default More detail on 1st 996 Model 3

Really appreciate the info on the Model 3's that went to the 4th Calvary in Texas and would like to see if there is a next step. I have 2 of the documented " first thousand" listed in the books and would like to find out which ones went where. Is there any information of what serial numbers went to which units?

Thanks in advance

Scott
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Old 09-18-2019, 02:54 PM
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Hey Scott,
I got a suggestion for you. Since you have two guns in your collection that are part of the original Military issue?
How about you take a trip to the original Springfield Armory location in Massachusetts? See website photo below. The records are there!
I once took a trip to Santa Fe to visit the Research Center they have there. What a great trip that was. I was researching a James Gang gun. Two individuals. Robert Ford and Dick Liddil. Both moved to Las Vegas New Mexico after the murder of Jesse James.
I Captured so much info and held in my hand original signed court documents( Criminal dockets) from some of the gang members who were arrested for various crimes. It was very exciting to hold that stuff in my white gloved hands!

You can try the website if you'd like but the archivists are "Always" loaded with work and often won't even answer your inquiry for months at a time. It's very frustrating. Prior to my trip to Santa Fe I actually hired someone to perform the research and they found some info for me but when I went there myself I was kinda upset and how much more I found within about 2 hours effort. It's not hard at all. Lots of information is available for public viewing. Some you have to make an appointment but usually it's the next day. They have to dig out the old records and then you go into a private area and the archivists stays with you while you examine the documents. It's an amazing experience.

You actually get to hold in your hands the original records (white gloves required) and I recommend you document your travels and experience to increase your guns values (Provenance). The service at the site is remarkable. They are very helpful when you are actually there and not sending emails.
Take a lot of photos and bring a good digital camera that takes really good close ups for documents that you find at the Armory. Who knows what authentic records you might uncover!
You won't regret it. Plus you can report out to us on the forum what you find.

Murph
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Last edited by BMur; 09-18-2019 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 09-18-2019, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BMur View Post
Well Texas Star,
You must be a church goer? I was conducting research and stumbled upon this article from a Man at Arms magazine in my collection. August of 1995.
You might like it!

Murph
What really amazes me is that it was 24 years ago. It seems it was yesterday.

Had to go dig it up and check.

Darn!

American Model .44 Used by  4th Cavalry?-20190918_223743-jpg
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Old 09-22-2019, 09:52 AM
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That's a cool article. I have one of the blued 800 that belonged to my ggg grandpa. I don't know how he got it, but was a Captain in the 7th infantry. Captain George Leslie Browning.
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Old 09-22-2019, 09:56 AM
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Man I'd like to be able to do that to research mine. I would love to know if mine was issued to my ggg grandpa, or who it was issued to. I'll never make it to MA, so guess I'll never know.
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