Hi,

I picked this up at auction last week and I am looking for all the information I can find. By serial number it is a Type II with a Type III Olympic barrel and Roper grips. The barrel is serial numbered to the frame in the same script so I"m sure it was either a special order or returned to the factory for the Olympic barrel. The serial number is near the end of the Type II's so that is some of the info I am looking to find. I'm going to send for a S & W letter but I am starting here. Let me know what you think. Let me know what you know and ball park on values if you don't mind. The wear doesn't add up between the barrel and the frame so I'm leaning toward a return to S & W for the upgraded barrel.

Thanks

Tom

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It looks like you have a 2nd model single shot [which are not 1891's] frame with a 3rd model Perfected single shot barrel [bottom is factory milled flat, & has 3rd model rear target sight]. These are usually considered transition pistols, but of course a S&W letter is the only way to confirm it.

The value depends entirely on the content of the letter, and the story told by any stampings on the grip frame--typically found on the left side----as in: "We shall see what we shall see."

Beyond that (depending on what the letter has to say) you may wish to request a search by the S&W Historical Foundation.

Ralph Tremaine

I am curious about the stocks, while appear to be S&W pattern, I have never seen any with a thumb rest. Barrels were available from S&W individually, and there have been many observations of a frame and barrel "marriage". I had one with a 3rd model "perfected", with a 2nd model barrel fitted in 8".

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Stocks are custom Ropers to my knowledge.

What is it about the stocks which lead you to believe they're Ropers?

Ralph Tremaine

Interesting piece. Get the letter as recommended. Take it to the range for a test run. Shooting these old guns can be very fun and surprising.

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

The sale advertised them as such and looking up Roper stocks I saw many very similar to these. I have not researched them enough to find out if they are actual Ropers or Roper copies. Did not see any marks when I removed them. I do believe his stocks were of the period and hand made. Trying to verify if they are in fact original Ropers is one of my goal. Getting the form and pictures ready to send for the S & W letter next. I might luck out and get a history letter too. Any info on the topic will be appreciated.

Well, let's look at some characteristics of Roper grips---and see what's what:

1. Virtually without exception Roper grips will show two more or less square/rectangular holes on the backs of both sides----jig holes for the checkering work. Have a look, and let us know. (I personally will be surprised to hear you found them, but I've been surprised before---and will be again.)

2. The "Roper Ribbon" checkering pattern many of us are familiar with appears on one or the other or both panels-----or not at all, as with these.

3. Again virtually without exception, Roper grips will have a diamond around the screw hole on at least one panel---as is the case here.

4. All Roper grips should have checkering of some sort--hand checkering. (There is speculation that later grips were available at a lower cost were machine checkered---also that these grips had round jig holes.) While the hand checkering was top quality, it's not uncommon to find light scribe line overruns into the borders.

5.Thumbrests are quite common, and are almost always checkered (or grooved) on the thumb pad.

Ralph Tremaine

Found the same info this afternoon. Got to pull the grips again to look for the jig marks. Pretty sure it's hand checkering. No checkering in the thumb rest and certainly no ribbon. Any suggestions as to who else might have made them?

Ok. I got my Roy Jinks letter. The gun was shipped with a ten inch barrel, blued, hard rubber target grips and Paine front sight. It was shipped a S & W Second Model Single shot. It was shipped to the DuPont Powder Co. Wilmington DE. April 28, 1910. I am going to send for the historic information tomorrow. Now who can add to the story. Any input appreciated.
Tom

Did you find the "Gagne holes" on the back of the stocks?