What year box is this?

Modelof1891 · #1 12-31-2019, 12:49 PM

Hello all,

I think this box is for a .38 Safty Hammerless with a 2 inch barrel. a bicycle gun?
Wondering if someone could tell me the year/model for this box.

Terry

Trying pictures again... as soon as time allows... it is a burg. hinged box

glowe · #2 12-31-2019, 04:44 PM

I may be wrong, but I think that the term Bicycle Gun is related to the 32 and not the 38 Safety revolvers?? Anyway, the 2" guns were made in the Fifth Model, which began with serial number 220,000. Not to say that a special order 2" gun could have been made earlier. There are several known 2" 38 Safeties with serial numbers near the end of production in the late 1930s. Boxes in the 1930s had inside labels in both English & Spanish.

Does your box have a end label and an inside label? Hinged burgundy boxes were normally from around 1900 to 1930. Boxes from 1900 to 1920 were hinged in the rear about mid-height and had an inner liner in the base. After 1920, the boxes had two language inner label. The "patent" boxes of the 1930 had beveled corners on the bottom section and were hinged from the rear very bottom of the box.

Pictures would help.

glowe · #3 12-31-2019, 08:16 PM

OK, thanks for adding the images and that fits right into the 2" 5th Model 38 Safety range. Those that I know of exist in a very narrow range, 259,000 to 261,000. That should be a 1930s box. Does it have a serial number on the bottom?

It is a very scarce, if not rare box.

Modelof1891 · #4 12-31-2019, 09:19 PM

Thanks for your input.
I was thinking 30’s or 40’s. I have a similar box for a 1905 HE which I think was shipped in the 20’s.
There is no number visible on the bottom. There is the number written over the label but I am leaning towards it not being a serial number.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BMur · #5 12-31-2019, 10:43 PM

Nice Box!

I really like the Bicycle guns of the late 1890's. Smith & Wessons in the 2" barrel are hard to find and very expensive so I have never purchased one but I'm always looking and interested.

However, I do have a good collection of the Off brands in 2" barrel top break. That is the only common denominator for the bicycle gun. Typically a 2" barrel top break in .22, .32, and .38 cal. (See photo) .32's were definitely the most popular caliber. .22's and .38's are rare! All were given the title "Cycle" guns initially then with the typical change in slang terms came the "Bicycle Gun" title that stuck. Probably in the mid-1890's when cycling became extremely popular and the term "Bicycle" became more popular than "Cycling".

Just wanted to input what I know about the Bicycle gun era. They were extremely popular in the 1890's for good reason. Modern day Animal lovers dislike the term and what they were used for but at one time "wild dogs" were a real problem and many people were injured and even killed by packs of wild dogs. Almost like the wild pig infestation that is taking over this country it seems. Cycling became popular at the same time which stimulated the sale of the bicycle gun not for sport but for simple preservation of life! Imagine being chased by a pack of dogs on a dirt road while Sunday riding your bicycles with your family or friends! It's amazing also how many were sold in the Bicycle gun configuration.

I'm pretty sure that Iver Johnson was the first company that came up with the term "Cycle" gun. H&R advertisements are also known, Forehand and Wadsworth also clearly advertised them for bicycle use, and I've seen Smith & Wesson distributor ads as well but they are more focused on the safety feature of the weapon. The off brands often come right out and say "For stray dogs". I'd have to dig through my collection of ad's but I'm remembering a drawing of a cyclist shooting at a pack of dogs from his bicycle. It was a different era!

*** If you read the ad? You'll notice the limit they put on women shooters. I'm sure women of that day didn't appreciate being limited to a "Cycle" pistol. I can only imagine what would happen today....Wow!

Murph

glowe · #6 01-01-2020, 10:14 AM

Here are a couple of S&W ads from around the turn of the Twentieth Century. One ad even capitalizes and bolds the term Bicycle Gun. The official collector name for revolvers from the era of your box would simply be 38 Safety, 5th Model.

In catalogs from the 1880s, if was called a Hammerless Safety and from the time of your box in the 1930s, it was named Safety Hammerless, and off and on from 1880s to the 1920s it was called "The New Departure" by the company.

BMur · #7 01-02-2020, 07:12 PM

Just one last tid-bit of info on the early bicycle guns? If anyone is following this thread?
The earliest term for bicycle was actually "Velocipede". This term also stimulated the European creation of the Velodog' revolver which was beyond extremely popular in Europe. Velo meaning Velocipede(bicycle)….and dog meaning Pistol to carry for protection from same. See Photos.
An early Velocipede club circa 1886 and the topbreak Velodog that I'm sure some if not all of these Gents are carrying.

** The History of the “ Bicycle Gun” actually spans from the early Velocipedes of the 1860's to the post WWI Era! Roughly 70 years! And is the “Origin” of the popularity of the short barrel revolver! NO, it wasn't gamblers! It was the Velocipede riders!! Hundreds of Thousands of them World Wide!

Murph

Dosgatos · #8 01-02-2020, 08:31 PM

Here's another ad for a Bicycle Gun

orbruce · #9 01-02-2020, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dosgatos

Here's another ad for a Bicycle Gun

The ad pictures a 1st Model 32 Bicycle gun, not often seen. Here's a picture of a the gun in the box.

B. Mower

BMur · #10 01-03-2020, 03:20 AM

I'm finding more and more period advertisements for the Smith & Wesson 2" barrel very clearly listed as a .32 cal Safety "Bicycle Gun".

Kinda makes me wonder how many were made in .32 caliber. With all these ad's and given the "extreme" popularity of the 2" barrel Bicycle gun by the general public and other gun manufacturers in the later 1890's? It makes sense and in fact "Strongly suggests" that several thousand were likely made by Smith & Wesson.

One of those hard to explain parts of gun collecting. I suppose the Smith & Wesson .32 Safety "Bicycle gun" are even more popular now among collectors than they were 120 years ago? Since they sure have held their value!!

Murph