Need help getting info.

djp112 · #1 06-28-2020, 08:03 PM

Hello.

I am looking for any kind of information i can get on this gun. The model # is 17471. It has been in my family and has been passed down so I would like to know as much about it as possible. Thank you for your help!

Wiregrassguy · #2 06-28-2020, 08:13 PM

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! I'm sorry but you have not given us enough information. We need the caliber of the gun and the serial number from the butt. It does not have a model number because it was made most likely in th 1800's and S&W didn't do model numbers until 1957. Are the cartridges shown in the picture for the gun? What caliber are they....32? Also, turn the gun over and post a picture of the other side.

mmaher94087 · #3 06-28-2020, 08:15 PM

It appears to be a .44 Double Action, 1st Model, .44 Russian caliber, 6 1/2"barrel with Pearl Stocks. The engraving is punch dot and is aftermarket; I.e., not factory. Number 17471 is the serial number. You have a nice heirloom.

djp112 · #4 06-28-2020, 08:19 PM

The bullets are .44's. From what i am finding appears to be 1890-1900?

Wiregrassguy · #5 06-28-2020, 08:30 PM

Mike nailed it. The manufacture date will have to be from someone who has another gun with serial near yours that has a factory letter. But, your range is in the ballpark.

first-model · #6 06-28-2020, 10:40 PM

In my records:

142xx shipped in March 1886
250xx shipped in February 1890

So my guess would be in early to mid 1887, although the vagaries of estimating shipping dates by serial number definitely apply here. I also have record of 123xx shipped in February 1895.

Mike

djp112 · #7 06-28-2020, 10:49 PM

Thanks for all the info. Its a great item to have and i wanted as much knowledge about it as possible.

iby · #8 06-28-2020, 11:27 PM

the barrel looks like it might be shorter than 61/2?

BMur · #9 06-29-2020, 01:15 PM

Very nice 44 Russian D/A. I agree with iby….Looks like a 5 inch barrel?
Just wanted to comment on the engraving? Punch dot engraving of this specific type was done during period of use (1880's only) and is normally found on Merwin & Hulbert/ Hopkins & Allen manufactured revolvers. Sometimes Forehand & Wadsworth also. I've personally never seen this specific type on a Smith & Wesson. There are actually many types of punch dot engraving. Most often its found much later with electric engraving tools and on cheaper mass produced spur trigger revolvers and some small pocket double action revolvers.

However, this pattern is very unique. It's not the typical electric scribble and in my opinion doesn't fall into a lower grade engraving.

I have a question also: On the other side of the gun on the side plate I'm very curious. Is there a mural type engraving of a animals head profile? or perhaps some other mural engraving? Sometimes an old 3 mast ship or old west scene? This is very common with this type of engraving and would be an extreme rarity on a Smith & Wesson in my opinion.

The only real issue with this early engraving is often it was engraved "shallow" so the pattern is often found worn off the gun. When it is found unmolested by handling and wear? With all the original finish intact? It's actually very attractive. (See photo’s)
Murph

iby · #10 06-29-2020, 03:51 PM

BMur.
I have seen a couple of S & W's that were almost certainly engraved by the Merwin engraver (Bodenstein).
This gun looks like someone tried to mimic the pattern.

Oyeboteb · #11 06-29-2020, 04:08 PM

My own NM3 "DA" in .44 Russian, Serial 22701, was shipped September 1889

glowe · #12 06-29-2020, 04:45 PM

Welcome to the Forum. Your revolver is called a 44 Double Action, 1st Model, manufactured from 1881 to 1913 in serial number range 1 to 54,668. It has the early short cylinder, 1 7/16". In 1886, the 44 DA Frontier was manufactured in 44 Winchester (44-40), requiring a longer cylinder to accept the longer cartridge. That cylinder was 1 9/16" long. After the short cylinders/frames in inventory were used up, the 44 Russian also went to the longer cylinder. Ship dates for this model are guesses at best since they did not ship in serial number order and were not in high demand. The single-action shooters were slow to change and by the early 1900s, these large caliber guns were replaced by solid frame revolvers. Since it is a family heirloom, get the historical letter so when passed on, the letter can go with the gun.

These are beautifully designed and crafted as were their main competitors, Colt Lightning and Thunderer DA revolvers, but none of these models gained much success and ended up as transition revolvers from the single-action days to the introduction of the solid frame revolvers.

I am curious if you know what the implement is below the barrel of the revolver?

BMur · #13 06-29-2020, 05:43 PM

My guess is it's a jailors key?

iby, I see what you are saying but (see photo) I zoomed in on the engraving and it does have (what's left of it) the typical leafy/ flower pattern( just heavily faded from normal wear from extensive use. So I personally think we need to see the other side of the gun. The proof to me would be that Mural on the side plate. They are never the same so anybody's guess what's there. They weren't always included but very often they were. Especially on the large framed revolvers. So, I'm betting it's there or it's worn off?

I'd sure like to see another Smith & Wesson having this type of engraving with all it's finish remaining? I've never seen one.

I mean I've certainly seen Murals and fancy engraving (New York Style, etc) on Smith & Wesson's but never this "Specific" pattern as seen in the photo's I posted?

Murph

djp112 · #14 06-29-2020, 06:46 PM

It is a jailors key. The Gun belonged to a Deputy Sheriff from the late 1800's. It was mounted along with his Silver Badge, a leather Billy Club, the key and Gun. Unfortunately, it was mounted in a way that a cannot get to the otherside of the Gun without some serious dismantling of the display. I was able to open it and grab the imprint with some dates engraved on the top of the barrel. Thank yoy everyone for all the information. This has been extremely interesting and i think i may have found a new hobby

opoefc · #15 06-29-2020, 09:47 PM

dip112, Very nice family heirloom! Your S&W .44 Double action, serial # 17471 was manufactured Feb. 3, 1886, as so listed in the production log kept by the Floor Foreman. I suggest you obtain a factory historical letter for the gun from the Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation which will show where the gun was shipped, when and to whom. There's a link on this Forum for the application form for the letter. Ed.

glowe · #16 06-30-2020, 08:36 AM

The new landing page for the factory letter is somewhat confusing, since they have combined two different request forms in one location. What used to be called a factory or historical letter is now a letter of authenticity. The link is below:

http://www.swhistoricalfoundation.com/swhf_letter.pdf