Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Notices

S&W Antiques S&W Lever Action Pistols, Tip-Up Revolvers, Top-Break Revolvers, and ALL Single Shots


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-28-2020, 08:03 PM
djp112 djp112 is offline
Member
Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info.  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 1 Post
Default Need help getting info.

Hello.

I am looking for any kind of information i can get on this gun. The model # is 17471. It has been in my family and has been passed down so I would like to know as much about it as possible. Thank you for your help!
Attached Thumbnails
Need help getting info.-15933887629012503703511081785893-jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-28-2020, 08:13 PM
Wiregrassguy's Avatar
Wiregrassguy Wiregrassguy is offline
SWCA Member
Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info.  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ashford, AL
Posts: 4,508
Likes: 18,607
Liked 5,058 Times in 1,837 Posts
Default

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! I'm sorry but you have not given us enough information. We need the caliber of the gun and the serial number from the butt. It does not have a model number because it was made most likely in th 1800's and S&W didn't do model numbers until 1957. Are the cartridges shown in the picture for the gun? What caliber are they....32? Also, turn the gun over and post a picture of the other side.
__________________
Guy
SWHF #474
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-28-2020, 08:15 PM
mmaher94087 mmaher94087 is offline
SWCA Member
Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info.  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,523
Likes: 4
Liked 1,378 Times in 773 Posts
Default

It appears to be a .44 Double Action, 1st Model, .44 Russian caliber, 6 1/2"barrel with Pearl Stocks. The engraving is punch dot and is aftermarket; I.e., not factory. Number 17471 is the serial number. You have a nice heirloom.
__________________
Mike Maher #283
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 06-28-2020, 08:19 PM
djp112 djp112 is offline
Member
Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info.  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 1 Post
Default

The bullets are .44's. From what i am finding appears to be 1890-1900?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-28-2020, 08:30 PM
Wiregrassguy's Avatar
Wiregrassguy Wiregrassguy is offline
SWCA Member
Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info.  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ashford, AL
Posts: 4,508
Likes: 18,607
Liked 5,058 Times in 1,837 Posts
Default

Mike nailed it. The manufacture date will have to be from someone who has another gun with serial near yours that has a factory letter. But, your range is in the ballpark.
__________________
Guy
SWHF #474
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-28-2020, 10:40 PM
first-model's Avatar
first-model first-model is offline
SWCA Member
Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info.  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 904
Likes: 445
Liked 781 Times in 305 Posts
Default

In my records:

142xx shipped in March 1886
250xx shipped in February 1890

So my guess would be in early to mid 1887, although the vagaries of estimating shipping dates by serial number definitely apply here. I also have record of 123xx shipped in February 1895.

Mike
__________________
SWCA 2721, SWHF 388
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 06-28-2020, 10:49 PM
djp112 djp112 is offline
Member
Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info.  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 1 Post
Default

Thanks for all the info. Its a great item to have and i wanted as much knowledge about it as possible.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-28-2020, 11:27 PM
iby iby is offline
Member
Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info.  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 306
Likes: 363
Liked 235 Times in 106 Posts
Default 44da

the barrel looks like it might be shorter than 61/2?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 06-29-2020, 01:15 PM
BMur BMur is offline
Member
Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info.  
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: California
Posts: 916
Likes: 358
Liked 1,272 Times in 544 Posts
Default Engraving

Very nice 44 Russian D/A. I agree with iby….Looks like a 5 inch barrel?
Just wanted to comment on the engraving? Punch dot engraving of this specific type was done during period of use (1880's only) and is normally found on Merwin & Hulbert/ Hopkins & Allen manufactured revolvers. Sometimes Forehand & Wadsworth also. I've personally never seen this specific type on a Smith & Wesson. There are actually many types of punch dot engraving. Most often its found much later with electric engraving tools and on cheaper mass produced spur trigger revolvers and some small pocket double action revolvers.

However, this pattern is very unique. It's not the typical electric scribble and in my opinion doesn't fall into a lower grade engraving.

I have a question also: On the other side of the gun on the side plate I'm very curious. Is there a mural type engraving of a animals head profile? or perhaps some other mural engraving? Sometimes an old 3 mast ship or old west scene? This is very common with this type of engraving and would be an extreme rarity on a Smith & Wesson in my opinion.

The only real issue with this early engraving is often it was engraved "shallow" so the pattern is often found worn off the gun. When it is found unmolested by handling and wear? With all the original finish intact? It's actually very attractive. (See photo’s)
Murph
Attached Thumbnails
Need help getting info.-c865251d-a853-417e-a5ad-e76ff150eb6c-jpeg   Need help getting info.-473fd68f-a20f-4c76-b604-cdb0a183e000-jpeg   Need help getting info.-8a2d6f6b-eead-4d7e-a7e3-cf8f1c13ae5b-jpg   Need help getting info.-de643aca-08aa-493e-9898-3c3fa857f78d-jpg   Need help getting info.-6224ac36-11c8-4c82-9fd1-790f0b14bcc2-jpeg  


Last edited by BMur; 06-29-2020 at 01:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 06-29-2020, 03:51 PM
iby iby is offline
Member
Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info.  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 306
Likes: 363
Liked 235 Times in 106 Posts
Default Engraving.

BMur.
I have seen a couple of S & W's that were almost certainly engraved by the Merwin engraver (Bodenstein).
This gun looks like someone tried to mimic the pattern.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-29-2020, 04:08 PM
Oyeboteb Oyeboteb is online now
SWCA Member
Need help getting info.  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,141
Likes: 1
Liked 421 Times in 195 Posts
Default

My own NM3 "DA" in .44 Russian, Serial 22701, was shipped September 1889
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-29-2020, 04:45 PM
glowe's Avatar
glowe glowe is offline
US Veteran

Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info.  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Michigan Western UP
Posts: 9,473
Likes: 1,117
Liked 6,817 Times in 3,147 Posts
Default

Welcome to the Forum. Your revolver is called a 44 Double Action, 1st Model, manufactured from 1881 to 1913 in serial number range 1 to 54,668. It has the early short cylinder, 1 7/16". In 1886, the 44 DA Frontier was manufactured in 44 Winchester (44-40), requiring a longer cylinder to accept the longer cartridge. That cylinder was 1 9/16" long. After the short cylinders/frames in inventory were used up, the 44 Russian also went to the longer cylinder. Ship dates for this model are guesses at best since they did not ship in serial number order and were not in high demand. The single-action shooters were slow to change and by the early 1900s, these large caliber guns were replaced by solid frame revolvers. Since it is a family heirloom, get the historical letter so when passed on, the letter can go with the gun.

These are beautifully designed and crafted as were their main competitors, Colt Lightning and Thunderer DA revolvers, but none of these models gained much success and ended up as transition revolvers from the single-action days to the introduction of the solid frame revolvers.

I am curious if you know what the implement is below the barrel of the revolver?
__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515

Last edited by glowe; 06-29-2020 at 04:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-29-2020, 05:43 PM
BMur BMur is offline
Member
Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info.  
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: California
Posts: 916
Likes: 358
Liked 1,272 Times in 544 Posts
Default Engraved by ????

My guess is it's a jailors key?

iby, I see what you are saying but (see photo) I zoomed in on the engraving and it does have (what's left of it) the typical leafy/ flower pattern( just heavily faded from normal wear from extensive use. So I personally think we need to see the other side of the gun. The proof to me would be that Mural on the side plate. They are never the same so anybody's guess what's there. They weren't always included but very often they were. Especially on the large framed revolvers. So, I'm betting it's there or it's worn off?

I'd sure like to see another Smith & Wesson having this type of engraving with all it's finish remaining? I've never seen one.

I mean I've certainly seen Murals and fancy engraving (New York Style, etc) on Smith & Wesson's but never this "Specific" pattern as seen in the photo's I posted?

Murph
Attached Thumbnails
Need help getting info.-3f2bbcd4-2fd2-4d40-b090-87fc5f5c1ce2-jpg  

Last edited by BMur; 06-29-2020 at 05:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #14  
Old 06-29-2020, 06:46 PM
djp112 djp112 is offline
Member
Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info.  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 1 Post
Default

It is a jailors key. The Gun belonged to a Deputy Sheriff from the late 1800's. It was mounted along with his Silver Badge, a leather Billy Club, the key and Gun. Unfortunately, it was mounted in a way that a cannot get to the otherside of the Gun without some serious dismantling of the display. I was able to open it and grab the imprint with some dates engraved on the top of the barrel. Thank yoy everyone for all the information. This has been extremely interesting and i think i may have found a new hobby
Attached Thumbnails
Need help getting info.-20200629_171956-jpg   Need help getting info.-20200629_172003-jpg  
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 06-29-2020, 09:47 PM
opoefc opoefc is offline
US Veteran
Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info.  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 9,571
Likes: 2,393
Liked 4,875 Times in 2,131 Posts
Default

dip112, Very nice family heirloom! Your S&W .44 Double action, serial # 17471 was manufactured Feb. 3, 1886, as so listed in the production log kept by the Floor Foreman. I suggest you obtain a factory historical letter for the gun from the Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation which will show where the gun was shipped, when and to whom. There's a link on this Forum for the application form for the letter. Ed.

Last edited by opoefc; 06-29-2020 at 09:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 06-30-2020, 08:36 AM
glowe's Avatar
glowe glowe is offline
US Veteran

Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info. Need help getting info.  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Michigan Western UP
Posts: 9,473
Likes: 1,117
Liked 6,817 Times in 3,147 Posts
Default

The new landing page for the factory letter is somewhat confusing, since they have combined two different request forms in one location. What used to be called a factory or historical letter is now a letter of authenticity. The link is below:

http://www.swhistoricalfoundation.com/swhf_letter.pdf
__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Info Quest = Colt Value & Info rhmc24 Firearms & Knives - Other Brands 5 01-07-2018 08:20 PM
alliant info not matching Lyman info???? Johnnn01 Reloading 20 09-24-2014 06:18 AM
Need Model 60 info. (have box label info.) Karl in NY S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 9 10-23-2013 01:36 PM
Mystery Model 669 "A" Engraved (Need Info) **INFO/PICTURES ADDED** Model39 Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 0 07-14-2011 05:53 PM
Help with info on .32 hand ejector info buckfever1613 S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 9 06-16-2011 09:33 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:12 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)